The hardest car to drive ? Retro F1 Generation 2

It was definitely one of the things that came up time and again from pro drivers that tested PC2 in development, they were missing that turn in bite in the tyre model, not from the track grip but from the tyre itself.

 

I struggle with the understeer/lack of front end grip too. (Oversteer no problem, gimme bucketfulls all day every day lol)
It just seems a little exaggerated to me. I know these cars (And others) have a tendency to understeer, but I think it needs calming down a little myself.
I've been on some tracks where you genuinely can't tootle around without understeering and veering off, it just doesn't feel like what 'any' tyre to road contact should feel like.

 

Any specific track and corners? I tried this in Adelaide with the 90 degree corners which are a pain to coast through. Played a bit with the setup, stifenning rear ARB and adding neg.toe at front seemed to help. Im not sure what exactly these cars are setup like obviously but a lot of cars in AMS2 seem to be understeery by default, including brake bias. Ultima GTR does this at high speed, default setup has a 140/40 ARB which seemed like a huge difference, tuning this 1 thing made driving it so much better (for me).

 

Same here, Vintage Gen I or II cars at Kyalami both wash out even at very low speed at the corner leading to the start finish straight. But it's more of a puzzle than that. Trying the same start procedure and same setup between Kyalami and Oulton Park and off the line the cars go straight and controllable at Kyalami like glued to the track but throw you into the pit wall at Oulton. Yes ok you could say 'adapt' but this isn't about subtleties, it's a massive difference in getting off the line. I make the point because it's both non-aero and aero cars doing the same thing, so it's problematic blaming lack of aero on the earlier generation for understeering off at slow speed never mind the difference in track grip between circuits.

 

Kyalami is at quite high altitude so cars are down on power. Here's a quote from Renato

 

Quite a few at several tracks, tends to be slower corners, but turn 2 at Jerez is an example, if you slow down enough to make the entry to the corner, the car will turn in and clip the apex ok, but as you feed on the power the back end is coming round in an oversteer situation, which ought to point the nose into the apex, but it still understeers off the track as you accelerate even though the back end is out. It's as if the front tyres have too little lateral resistance against the track surface as they turn. Meanwhile the AI just sail off into the distance chuckling to themselves, effortlessly putting the power down as I am feathering the gas for all I'm worth.

 

The last turn at Kyalami has to be the most irritating, since it is the most important corner on the track for lap times!!!

I would caution using the known-to-be-unfinished AI as any kind of guide. It just leads to tears (or false immodesty when the AI is slower than they should be).

The slow speed front tire bite sure seems low. If a set-up change can adjust it, that's fine, but otherwise we know Reiza will take a look at it. However, part of it is FFB settings. These cars are the most difficult to achieve tire feel of any in the game. You can crank settings to get it, but it then makes many other vehicles too heavy and unpleasant. I have balanced FFB now, with no vehicle feeling out-of-order, so I am assuming it's up to Reiza to take another pass at these. I suspect that if front grip is increased (somehow...as other cars have been adjusted recently), the FFB will likely resolve itself in the process.

 

I hope it's addressed somewhat at least, looking at it from a league point of view where default setups may be forced, the over the top understeer (Genuinely like on ice at some tracks IMO) wouldn't be too desirable for many I fear.

 

I just gone from Formula Vintage ( difficult, but rewarding and a lot of fun) to the Chevette. Try and drive that fast without killing yourself ...ha ha...the tires are like donuts.

 

Coffee time.

Just remembering earlier builds I do recall feeling a lots of forces whilst hitting the bottom of the dip at speed (Brands Hatch) after paddock hill It was good.
I have not felt that recently at least not as noticeable, will have to recheck //settings, may been the differences in builds?

 

So I had a go at Jerez and I think what you mean now.
I tried only 1 change, reduced front ARB to something slightly more extreme and at 4/20 the front grip seems much better. And when I dont increase the rear ARB it doesnt seem to make it TOO deadly in other situations. There are some corners like the hairpin thing where I do need to use slightly more wheel when I really want to coast through but I assumed thats how these cars worked, needing a bit more steering compared to the modern cars.

 

I agree that the car setups need a lot of work, but I still don't think its a setup thing. In the 1960s there were many deaths among GP drivers, but most of these were to do with inherently dangerous tracks or driver error, the cars weren't setup to kill the driver. Imagine you are at the Nurburgring driving in the 1967 German GP, fifteen laps of the 22Km track, you aren't going to get to the end if the car is trying to bite you all the time. And in that race nobody died and there were no crashes, only mechanical failures. Now imagine trying that in a Gen1 or 2 car.

Yes the cars were different to drive, using the throttle to control the attitude of the car in a corner as much as the steering wheel (this is possible at Kyalami in the fast corners), but they were no more difficult to drive because difficulty comes from going flat out whether in a 1960s GP car or a ground effects era GP car, there isn't a free lunch where winning is easier in any racing era or formula. If the modern GP cars are easier to drive in comparison to the 1960s everybody just drives faster so making them difficult again . And driveability is also not an isolated problem for the Gen 1 and 2 cars, there are others in the game that are wayward such as the Street Ultima, again a car that isn't designed to kill the driver, it wouldn't be allowed on the road, but in the game it's a different thing. And the Formula Vee or Caterham cars could barely navigate a slow tight corner at the start of Early Release. So while there are some glaring problems with the Gen 1 and 2 base setups that still isn't the solution, just a plaster on the wound, this one is down to Reiza to fix.

 

Well put, I very much agree with what you say here, it just doesn't make sense that they would be so unstable. I think this has just become a sim racing myth ever since GPL, there's little evidence to support the theory that these cars were out to kill you. It was the complete lack of safety features that took lives, not the cars themselves.