Maybe you are too good, but I'm struggling with this car. My brakes do a lot of locking, my rear tires ain't no tight on slow corners and so on. I believe that the challenge of a modern F1 is just what you're feeling (even pro F1 drivers said that on simulation lives) plus the high G-Forces, that can't be produced on a simulator.
No you can't. /thread Honestly. Not liking the game and its physics is fine, and saying it's too easy to save some slides is absolutely fine, too (though I disagree, and I enjoy the way it is atm - moreover, I tend to dislike the cars that are harder to save, like the Formula Retros, or the Formula Rookies). However, you're just exaggerating in a mildly ridiculous manner. It simply doesn't work the way you describe it, anyone who has the game and fires it up will not have the impression I quoted above - except for you. Yeah, because these are F1 cars and generate so much downforce that something like that indeed seldom happens. Personally, I think that several AMS2 cars are even somewhat too tail-happy when trailbreaking.
OK @Crimson now I have checked your setup out. Without changing anything (but steerLock) I can only manage 1:01.873 - mainly because I cannot get around corners. Probably because of the diff settings dont like my narrow wheel turning capability. But changing diff to complete minimum values (power/coast/pre + the V-thing) I managed 1:01.663. Mainly because the minimum coast helped rotating at entrance of corners. Hehe but after that I really got blood on my teeth - and with my new earned selfesteem from Hockenheim historics I did 1. install my best Brands setup and 2. really tightened the seat belt for about an hour and 3. got my best laptime down from 1:00.7something to 1:00.555 and 4. retook my 4th position up in the behind of our friend jugulador. ByTheWay: If this man doesnt strike back and up his laptime very quickly I think I can steal his 3rd position in the next few days. But honestly I dont think I can get under the 1:00.000 mark. Bitter pill to swallow but better be realistic me think.
No idea what you are on about, i struggle to generate any great wheel spin or loss of control in that tight hair pin corner, yes there is a touch of spin(barely noticeable) but nothing to ever come close to fear of losing it.
That is the whole point i am making, i don't feel anywhere near the limits and running top 10 times so far, (i should be feeling some limits already) the only errors i am making is wrong lines, wrong braking points and not hitting the apex, i am not losing time with slide corrections being on the edge. Yes the slides and out of control will come like you said when i reach the limits but to only add two notches of front down force before my first 4 laps and make a top 10 time(in less than 15mins) is way too easy or forgiving of an initial setup.
Minimum coast ramp angle is a highly locked diff at coast, which will worsen corner entry. Minimum power ramp angle is a highly locked diff at power application and is probably more of the reason, why it worked.
Thanks for the advice Crimson - apreciated But I have been into this diff discussions before and have concluded that often people refer too much to diff settings in RL and does forget we are dependent of how realistic/unrealistic a sim is able to replicate RL. This is further worsened because different sims does display the diff values as directly locking values while others does display clutch numbers (without revealing it). So because of that I have concluded that I dont care what the diff settings is in RL - but solely what my trial & error experience from the sim world tells me. There is a thread here where I does elaborate my personal conclusions: Differential settings - please Specially in post #13 ByTheWay: To cut the conclusions short: the LOWEST numbers in Power and Coast would result in maximum oversteer entering a corner and maximum understeer exiting a corner. Power •A higher percentage value will result in the differential locking more quickly when power is applied. This will result in the rear wheels spinning at more similar speeds which will result in greater oversteer. Coast •The Diff Coast setting affects the car behaviour when you are OFF the throttle. •This is particularly helpful during corner entry as you can adjust it to help get the car to rotate more easily, •A lower percentage of coast = more off-throttle oversteer.
The LSD values in the madness engine are ramp angles and it's literally written down. AMS1 had percentages of lock. AMS2 has angles of the diff ramp. Which work in the opposite direction to increase and decrease, compared to percentages. Clutch numbers are something different again. It's the number of clutches, you apply to the differential. This is not an opinion based discussion, it's facts based. Either it works as described, or something is broken and wrong. This is true for AMS1, which uses percentages of lock. AMS2 LSD uses the angles of the diff ramp, that pushes the clutches to apply locking force. Again: in AMS2 it works the basically opposite way by numbers. Coast ramp angle is NOT a percentage. A lower ramp angle is a higher percentage of lock. Have a read, please (It's the exact same for AMS2, look for the Limited Slip Diff part, it's important to understand, that it's not like in AMS1): [Magic inside!] Need Help With Differentials
Hehe you are refering to this text like fundamentalists does refer to the bible (or the koran/quran). But as I read it its just this one guys interpretation of how he thinks the diff is working. But its a good example of what can happen if you does short circuit directly from RL to the sim world(IMO). ByTheWay: As described above my conclusions are dependent of what I can feel in the virtual cars - and not what I should feel if I was in a RL car.
This is one of the physics guys, that worked with the Madness Engine. His forum name literally has the "Handling QA Lead" badge. It's literally 1st hand information from the development of the system itself. It's not interpretable. It's not about opinions. Either the diff works technically correct, like described 1st hand, or something is broken. This is physics, not a philosophic opinion based debate. (It's not just "different feel" of the car, it's "opposite, to what should technically be the case") Either your conclusions are technically and factually wrong when it comes to ramp angles (because they aren't percentages), or the LSD of the Madness engine (in AMS2) is broken because it reportedly works different, than described. (Which wouldn't be thaaat surprising for me, to be honest, measured after how some cars behave more believeable, when switching to the geared diff, for example) By the way: You compare factual education about technical specifications with religious texts...apples and peas. Want another text? Maybe the most official, you even find? Episode 18: Differentials - Project CARS 2 I'm allergic to the spread of misinformation (I even hate it, when i fall into this trap by myself, an example is, i thought time trial would not change tyre temps over a run, which was a misconception and misinformation). Imagine, somebody without the information about how to set up a differential reads your conclusions and thinks, it applies generally, without knowing to fall in a trap of doing the opposite of what this person thinks and what actually should happen.
OK - if you say so Sounds very convincing - eventhough I have mainly heard such kind of saying when people refuse to use arguments. Like this is the truth -the absolute TRUTH. And dont you ever try to dispute it - because your experiences and oppinions are just untrue and fake. Why? Because my autorities say so.
I have given you 2 official resources from the makers of the Madness Engine now, how the LSD setup works and how its workwise is described. I have no authority here, i'm just a user, that likes to moan about videogames. Science and code, also development sources of the Madness Engine say how it should work. If your impressions are based on complete testing of all changes and definetly 100% surely delivering results, that turn out to be the opposite of what is described in these sources, then you actually found a serious issue with the LSD. (I will soon also test every diff and especially the LSD of its workwise in AMS2, after reading this here and my experiences with the Camaro and F-Retro, which seem to behave strange with the LSD switched on)
Most of the sims uses angles, but it was ISI with rf1 and rf2 that uses % of locking. The result are opposite numbers. As AMS was based on rf1 that's why the lower numbers means less locking while in AMS2 isn't the case.
The F-Reiza is on rails, may as well be an arcade racer, still fun to drive but getting half decent times doesn't feel like a real accomplishment. Low 58's should be easily attainable on Brands Hatch if i can be second on the leader board with about 3 hours of effort. Driving poor lines and revving out in 7th gear too often is the only thing stopping the 58's being reached. I still don't feel on edge yet (driving wise) and never feel like i will lose control of the car for taking a corner too fast or lock the brakes and spin out.
You are a slow driver or a jedi. I beat the new LB's record on Brands Hatch... for that I had to set up my car to be very unstable (so it can have a little oversteer at high speed corners). Very easy to loose control over that. It's the last time I respond to people saying that the physic on AMS2 (or at any of it's cars) is "arcade" because your description of AMS2 behavior don't match with it's real behavior. So, or you are trolls, or you are too much better than me... or you are telling your truth, that is a slow driver that don't realize that and blame the simulation.
I used your setup to go from 4th on the LB to 2nd, i find your setup nice and stable---very easy to drive. I made several silly mistakes in that run but none were as a result of car handling that is for sure. The main issue i have with your setup is that it revs out in 7th gear way too early costing me time. If i understood gear ratios better i would play around with them.
I meantioned in the other thread earlier that I get confused by terms used in Madness engine, and this discussion about percentage of locking versus ramp angles is exactly what I meant by it. Because my experiences in PCARS2 are also opposite to the definition of ramp angles locking effect, I prefer to go by trying max values and then going down from there just by feel instead. Without saying that you'd be wrong in what you say, I'm with BrunoB here. To me, it feels like higher ramp angles give more locking, regardless what Jussi (the physics lead dev at SMS) says in his otherwise good thread at PCARS2 forum. Mind you, the issue might also be just the terms used in Madness engine setup settings, not in the physics itself. For all we know, the ramp angles in the diff setting screen could be locking percentage and not ramp angles. This could have went unnoticed because physics devs don't necessarily use the setup screen when developing the game, but edit the physics directly with developer tools just for the sake convenience. Also the setups themselves are somewhat separate layer and mapped to the car physics files. I did quite a lot of testing with differentials on the skid pad in PCARS2 in the past, and the best way to find out how they affect, is to drive in certain degree of turn at constant speed and try over and over again how the car handles when you depress throttle and lift-off. I think there are enough flat large surfaces on some tracks in AMS2 too, but unfortunately no actual skidpad with painting to get good results. I haven't done enough testing like this in AMS2 to say whether the Clutch LSD acts exactly like in PCARS2, but I will when I get time for that.
Them you are tooooooo god, man. I will watch your replay and see if you drove it that nicely as you say. The F-Reiza is a huge downforce car... at high speeds the natural tendency of this kind of car is to understeer. But at low speeds, as ate the Druids, you have to modulate the gas. The AMS2 physics react that way. The real difficulty of a modern F1 car is the extreme G-Forces and the fact that you can never make mistakes (driving line and braking points) because you will be too fast. More than one F1 driver already said that, specially criticizing other simulators, as iRacing. There is logic on F-Reiza's behavior. PS: Yes, it's supposed to quick rev. You will redline it near the Hawthorn Bend, but also will quick recover speed between there and the Westfield Bend. Overall, that straight is the only place where you will redline the car. If it was a race setup I would make it different, but in a hotlap the extra acceleration will give you more time than you lost there. If you want to tune it, the largest the gear ratio, the shorter the gear is... just use the other gears ratio as reference.
@JS1, I just watched your replay and compared our laps from inside the cockpit. Don't get me wrong, but I am a slow driver, and you are even slower. Most of the time, your racing line is the safest, not the fastest, and your steering work is very conservative (it's not bad... maybe it's because of your line). You were faster than me in just one corner, and not that much faster. Maybe you are feeling the car is arcadish exactly because of that. I believe that I still can find some more tents of second there, but you could go faster than me if you get more aggressive. And I saw that your steering wasn't that smooth at Druids as you said. Anyway... don't fell insulted when I say you are slow. I'm just showing you that the car is behaving as it should have. It's not some random behavior, as GTS or most of PCAR2 cars.
You are completely missing the point of my posts, i never said i am a fast driver, i am saying with my lack of time in sim racing i shouldn't be performing as well as i am in this car and not feel on edge. I know i am way too conservative and there is plenty of time to be found when i gain more confidence and understand the track better, along with learning what each tune up adjustment does to the car. Now i don't know the name of the corners on the track so i did a quick check online but i feel completely safe and way within the edge at Druids with no fear of losing it, the braking should be more difficult in such a corner where newbies can easily spin---but i never fear that. In fact most laps i bail out of(due to eventually running too wide or braking too early losing time later on in the lap) i am ahead of you at that corner and after until Surtees. I struggle to take/read the correct lines at Clark curve and Stirlings for most of my laps, Surtees you get good speed out of and i fall behind most of the time but i have recently fixed that by lowering my back tyre pressures for better traction out of the corner. I don't feel the Areo adjustments make that much of a difference, i have dropped to low 30's compared to your 40's and still feel in control of the car(it doesn't feel that much different)---i was thinking less down-force would improve my top-line speed more but it is more a wild guess than any education behind it. My conservative nature is due to not having enough laps in sim racing as a whole and not knowing this track well enough to be in autopilot mode taking the correct lines---not because i fear i will lose control----more the frustration i will miss a corner run off wide and have to restart my lap.
