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What am i doing wrong - too many spins !

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Sting Ray, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. Sting Ray

    Sting Ray Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Have quite a few hours now on AMS2 and have tried all sort of FFB settings (currently using Slapshot 82 individual settings per car from the Custom FFB thread) but am finding racing SO frustrating due to the ease with which the back of the car comes around, thus spinning. And if you go on the grass, well that's the end of that really as it's like ice trying to get back on track.
    I tend to only do 5-10 lap sprint races in the Stock Car, Ultima or Ginetta but spend more time trying to tweak FFB and or car setup (which i no little about), than completing the laps without the back coming around (typically under acceleration). Do cars really spin this easily in reality ?

    My wheel is nothing special, Thrustmaster TMX with T3PA pedals (not Pro) but last night (having got so fed up with AMS2) i reinstalled GTR2 with the latest anniversary mod and did a 30 min race at Spa. I spun once (exciting the bus stop chicane...too heavy a foot) but recovered quite easily and completed the race. I had a more enjoyable time on that 14 year old game (albeit with modded graphics which make it look better) than with AMS2 which just seems daft.

    Have seen a few comments about AMS2 cars pivoting too easily but are there some tweaks i can apply to make things a bit better?
     
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  2. BrunoB

    BrunoB TT mode tifosi BANNED

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    My own experience driving the F-Reiza is about the same.
    The rear end just disappears without warning - often at corner exits.
    It hasnt allways been this way but has something to do with the 2 last updates.
    And eventhough I at the moment does "solve" it by exiting corners unrealistic slow - then I can feel that this unrealistic car behaviour is slowly turning my sim racing attention elsewhere.

    The full realistic racing sim doesnt exist but if a sim begins to feel too unrealistic then we are lucky that there exist alternatives. :)
     
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  3. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    For whatever reason, several cars (Stock Car 2020, Super V8, Ginetta GT4, Copa Montana) are very twitchy in the rear on default setups. Softening the rear suspension and increasing traction control when available helps a little, although the Super V8 I found to be mostly undriveable. Other cars (P1, P2, P3, P4, Sprint, Formula Classic, GT5, Opala 79/86) feel just fine.

    Hard to say whether this is just how they are, because the cars I found problematic do not exist in other sims apart from the Ginetta. There is an Ermin Hamidovich video on YouTube comparing the AMS2 version of the Ginetta with ACC, with the conclusion that the ACC version has better brakes and more grip in general. But then again it seems like the AMS2 version is actually the SuperCup variant, not a GT4 spec.

    Try a different car until you find something you like better and focus getting consistency on that while Reiza work on the setups/modelling of some of the more troublesome vehicles. Luckily AMS2 has lots to choose from.
     
  4. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Raise front springs and/or dampers and/or draw-bar, and/or lower the rear, brake balance to the front and be more careful with steering and brake input, all cars are drivable without spinning.
    Using the default FFB gives me the best feel of the car.
     
  5. Gagaryn

    Gagaryn Out To Lunch AMS2 Club Member

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    I'd be tempted to concentrate on steering and throttle inputs and be careful how you are coming off the brake. Try to keep things smooth. Leave the setup changes until you are consistently quick with the stock setups. If you are constantly changing setups without ever mastering the car you will learn nothing.
     
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  6. sherpa25

    sherpa25 Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Regrading 'coming off the brakes', I imagine this would provide more front grip, hence what would cause the car to spin? I've experienced this some times w/ the Ginetta. Want to understand why.
     
  7. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    Coming off the brakes = releasing the brake. That moves weight away from the front which decreases front grip overall. (Unless you've already exceeded max grip and are sliding, of course.) Coming off the brake smoothly is important because if you just release it like a digital switch, the sudden shift in weight can destabilise the car which is what causes you to spin. Some cars even benefit from "trail braking", which means you are keeping some pressure on the brake all the way to the apex. I don't remember if the Ginetta is one of these... been a while since I drove it.
     
  8. Sting Ray

    Sting Ray Member AMS2 Club Member

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    thanks all. The default FFB for me is better than before official launch but has zero feel of understeer or oversteer, whereas the custom files i have found do a better job. Will try the softening etc suggested and maybe throttle sensitivity (as my spins are mostly accelerating away from corners) may help. Should have a few hours on weekend to practice as family away !!
     
  9. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    At this point I hope the way cars feel in AMS2 will change, as I am not enjoying it. Patiently waiting for what would be to me an improvement. Now would be a good time.:)
     
  10. sherpa25

    sherpa25 Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Sorry,meant rear grip, as weight is brought more to the rear. So how will it spin, with more rear grip? I know about too much rear bias can make the rear unstable but always thought releasing brakes to transfer weight back before a corner would allow the rears more grip and not slip. Thanks.
     
  11. Lucas Vieira

    Lucas Vieira Member

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    Every update i used to reset default every setup from every car i try to test. I usually test in time trial's because the tyres are already warm up. If you are trying to test in test day, you probably gonna need to give a little heat on the tyres. And yes, cold tyres are extremally trick till they heat up.

    I dont spend much time trying to change the setup, because usually every update the cars are changing a little bit.

    My advice, would be to try the time trial, because the tyre temperature as i mentioned, and reset your wheel to default settings. Check the clockwise degrees too. And would also try to lower the rear roll bar and camber, and up the wing degree. Or you can simple delete you profile folder from AMS2 and it will be recreate when you login again.

    Personally, im not facing this kind issues to spun on slow corners anymore. I used to have at first updates. But not anymore.
     
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  12. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    It's not solely about grip on it's own, it's about weight transfer too. Sure, moving weight from the front to the rear should increase rear grip overall. However, if that movement is made too abruptly then it will still destabilise the car. The rear tyres could go from doing very little to exceeding their maximum grip from the sudden load, especially if you're also turning in at the same time. Or the load may "bounce" on the suspension, meaning the tyres go from little load to high load to little load in quick succession, again inducing instability.

    So maximum stability is generally achieved by keeping everything... throttle, brake and steering... smooth. (Note that I'm not saying that it's the absolute fastest way to drive in all situations. Just the most stable.)
     
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  13. BrunoB

    BrunoB TT mode tifosi BANNED

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    At least for me It looks like I dont have to abandon AMS2 because of this missing rear at corner exit.
    Hehe at least for the moment :p

    Because messing with the diff settings then I tried to up the Power setting fully - from a rather low value to max value(- 2 click) in F-Reiza.
    And from loosing the rear for no reason at exits the car is now almost neutral to slightly understeer(!!) :confused:under power.
    At low speed it is still the same (suddenly OVERsteeer and godbye rear) but since almost all commercial racing sims has this low speed problem Reiza will not hear much from me about standing in the same row as others :whistle:

    ByTheWay: I have seen the cause of this more or less general racing sim problem explained as caused by some dividing by zero (at low speed) in the most used underlying Pacejka's model.
    Hehe and even tire models that officially hide that they are based on this model exebits this behaviour:p
     
  14. Sampo

    Sampo Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I would delete all the previous setups when a new patch comes. I believe the setups are saved as deltas to the current defaults, so if the defaults change, your setup could end up being wrong. That's what I think I remember from the PC2 forums. Someone correct me on this, please.
     
  15. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    A few points
    • throttle is not an on/off button
    • AMS2 to me is more predictable in its oversteer, even if it's more common, than other sims. No other sim I've played is as good about allowing you to save the car after traction has been broken.
    • VR helps immensely for sensing oversteer. I love it.
    • Soften the rear spring rates and/or rear sway bars to dial out oversteer
    • Check your input response time, you will have no hope of catching oversteer if your input lag is high, say, 10ms+. The lower it is, the better. <1ms is ideal, and that's just the display.
    • Some of the cars you've referenced have a spool diff. these will be very prone to understeer until traction is exceeded (and this happens very easily in this scenario), and then they will then oversteer aggressively. And when I say understeer, I literally mean just for a moment, they are definitely prone to snapping out on you. Any car with a spool needs to be driven with this in mind, understanding the rear tires are locked together and they are very prone oversteer and power slides around turns.
    • Some cars are being discovered now to have differential problems (some are too tight, leading to spool-like behavior) which Reiza is looking into. But the Ginetta is, to my knowledge, not one of them, it works fine.
    Dont be afraid to drop the rear spring rates or roll bars, and learn to drive the slide out of the corner. One of the most enjoyable and unique things about AMS2 is how controllable cars are in slides. You CAN save them and there IS grip available when the tire has begun sliding.
     
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  16. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    Please tell us your FFB settings (Gain, LFB, FX). The usual cause of too little feeling is wrong settings for these. If you want to be pure about it, start with all at 0 and then set each one in succession (using the Default FFB--don't fiddle with Custom files until you have a stable foundation with Default to compare). Gain first, with LFB and FX at 0, then when Gain is set find the right LFB with FX still at 0 and then last adjust FX. For a lower powered wheel such as yours, it may be possible to save some time and jump immediately to 50/50/50 and go from there rather than start at 0.
     
  17. Micropitt

    Micropitt Mediocre driver doing mediocre laps AMS2 Club Member

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    I'm not sure we are all using the same game..... :eek:
    For me, as example, the Ginetta G55 is a absolute stable car. I drive it a lot at Interlagos and even in the tight corners it doesn't oversteer. The back does tend to come around while going in to a corner on the brakes. You can solve that issue by fine tuning the setup a little bit. Brake pressure, brake bias and loosening up the car on the front is helpful. Otherwise that car is rock stable.
    The Stock Car 2020 has to be driven with love. Means, treating the throttle with lots of love coming out of the corner. In general, you can't drive that car like you drive a GT3 or GT4 car. You have to pay very close attention to input control and drive that car with a smooth flow. Trust me, once you learn to take T1 at Cascavel without braking and under Throttle you will see how much fun that car is ;)
    What I'm trying to say is that adapting your driving style to each car is immensely helpful. Don't try it the other way around, adapting the car to your driving style. Each car reacts in a different way to input control and you have to adjust your input control but in general keep in mind 2 rules: never slam on the brakes and never slam on the throttle. Think of throttle and brake as your girlfriend, treat it with love :)
    Anyways, that are my 2 cent
     
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  18. David Peres

    David Peres Active Member

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    Stock Car 2020 and Ginetta GT4 are my two favourite cars at the moment in AMS 2 and I hope they don't change them much. The Stock Car 2020 is a very twitchy and nervous car, as it does seem to be in real life going by several onboard videos, but when you start loosing traction it's very easy to correct... easier in fact than it was in AMS 1, so it's overall an easier car to drive than in the previous game, even if it is a bit nervous. If I push it too hard then I'll spin but when it happens it always feels deserved. Again, the behaviour of this car doesn't seem too far off from what I see in onboard videos.

    The Ginetta GT4 is so much fun and the car I've spent the most time with in AMS 2 so far. This car at Bathurst is now one of my favourite combos in simracing. Compared with the Ginetta in ACC (which is a different version) the AMS 2 car is, also, a bit more nervous, but the feeling at the edge of grip seems to be more communicative than it is in ACC as well, so it's very easy too correct.

    In both cases I find the cars extremely communicative so I can always tell how much more throttle or steering angle I can apply before spinning and any loss of traction can usually be corrected easily. Love them.

    The F-Reiza however I have the opposite opinion of BrunoB... I find this car to be pretty much glued to the road at higher speeds. Sure, it's supposed to have lot's of downforce, but it still feels a bit too much for me so I prefer the FV12. That one feels more alive.

    Overall it's a bit weird how many different opinions there are about the physics in AMS2, with some people complaining the cars are too stable and easy and others saying they are too difficult and rotate too much. What I hope it that Reiza takes our opinions with a huge bucket of salt and instead just focuses as much as possible on real data and telemetry (when possible) to make the cars as real as possible regardless of what we think.
     
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  19. lawgicau

    lawgicau Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Of the cars being discussed I've driven the Ginette g55 the most. I find it lively at the rear but I'm not complaining at all. It's tremendous fun and I hope it stays how it is.
    I was a bit disappointed to find the f trainer and superv8 significantly tamed in recent updates. They are still fun but not the challenge they used to be.
     
  20. BrunoB

    BrunoB TT mode tifosi BANNED

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    I dont think we actually disagree about this David because one of the reasons I still (somewhat) love the F-Reiza is because at soon as the downforce cuts in the car is fantastic(IMO) in how controllable and predictable the car is. You can really play with the throttle in corners because of the downforced grip.
    My problem with this car is when the speed is low and there is only the mechanical grip left.
    But at least I have lowered these problems reasonable by getting away with some of the disappearing rear by adjusting the power value in the diff.;)
     

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