Automobilista 2 Custom Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

4.5 and I understand its the high end file, 4.4 was good too but this one is just far more balanced imo from what I saw with them (4.5 is). Yes for me setting it to 100 gain and 100 dampener, then I set 65 LFB just now and its the v12 but also some gt3's and they went really fine - they were the weaker ones a few updates ago (and in general) but now they feel full and like there's tyres at the end of a rack.

I set fx at 55 for this tx, and its remarkable. With a little bit of adjustment you can find something you will like. In saying that its fantastic anyway. Its got to be in the top 2 for ffb surely. We just went out to see the be quiet 2 movie and this will definitely continue the nights of entertainment. Even will get the other half to check how much its all improved since last time.

For me slides come back better than ever, and the wheel angle and slip seems much better to 1 control and 2 as one may expect, so the ffb is really helping gain a control even when it is out of control (to be out of control in a better feeling way)... its good.

As for speed into a corner ok while there is more rotation potential (and there is a good indication of oversteer/understeer with 4.4 and 4.5) its not too bad and maybe the track the setup is not the best for, but its more ready to rotate. It can really turn in now at 150-200km's so its possible I felt 80% of that was legitimately there and didn't feel weird, so I know its an approximation and its fine for now well done, I think its preferable because I am of course re-adjusting to turning and its better make no mistake; and mid corner is like you can adjust better, and out of a corner maybe there is slightly too much rotation but I have not felt the need at 65 iirc to adjust it down, and modulating the brake really pays off, so like a plane touching down to borrow a metaphor - you can brush the wheels far better before taking off then back down, its more feelable/feeling. I like it and it is really coming across that the car is at the edge of its limit more than ever. I like it and done at imola and brands, so I am familiar with what I was feeling before to now.

edit: then after ten mins, I put lfb from 65 to 50 and it is much tighter for movement in the v12. So maybe 55 will be my final resting place here, but the 4.5 file feels really on-point. People will get a lot of utility out of it surely. Maybe the slip is over-doing it for me but thats how slips are, but remember I am deliberately trying to drive a little too fast to get more ffb in a short amount of time. Proper entry's,mids and exits at the correct speed feel so good. At hockenheim 88 short there is all that hopping and skipping and its great man.

With this patch and the custom ffb basically when I want to use the brakes just to touch them to realign before the corner entry and there's a car beside you - there's so much more 'command' there between driver/ffb/and road-car. Cool. So I would probably leave it at 50 lfb for now, too.

And with low acceleration especially the ffb "pickup" or tightening up and realignment of the wheels feels really nice now. So all the transitioning seems rather wonderful off load to load, under-load to steering and off acceleration; its feels like a lot of movement and the car is alive. Great.

edit 2 and I like how the wheel will now take control of itself a fair bit more often and bounce back and forward without wanting to loosely spill off the road. Another solid tick - done with 70 LFB.... at 100 lfb I was getting a red bar, and 50 maybe was a little low, 65 was ok, but 70 is even better. for a tx wheel don't forget

So I like it because you need to use the brake like always but modulate it properly, but now also with the slip being just right - the throttle and I really appreciate that. In titles like Rfactor 2 that is just not the case when you can just put the pedal to the metal and brake as hard as you want, now in AMS2 its almost as if that being rewarded (to manage these things properly), and its more like a real car/race imo.

Bravo - for me I now have to lift off the pedal more and it feels like a moving car, when racing, to position, so its lifting and putting down and oversteer/understeer, modulating stop/start and its really good. AMS2 has so much control and the ffb really helps draw that out.

eg I just rotated the rear under acceleration round I think turn 5 at hockenheim 88 short, looking at first time to stands, and I could feel the slip like it was on asphalt/bitchumen. It was solid entry, loss of grip and grab, firming up mid-turn and solid exit, and the grab was apparent at various levels throughout. Totally legit physics as it was constantly gaining friction/traction and momentum, at the end it stopped going left too much with acceleration/modulation, and it tucked back in and went forward, smoothly, like a bell-curve with a jut at the end before correcting straight.

- with the above setup curbs feel really nice at montreal; you hit the curb wrong and you will fly off or into the air, or spin sideway/forwards out. Other sims you often just go over the curbs.
-the ultima race at speilberg short is brilliant; way more cars are more versatile and good - I am using 4.5, previous version 4.4 for a little bit, but mostly 4.0. BIG changes.
-downforce for this version 4.5 exp is going to be needed to dialed up a fraction for many setups, which makes more sense than previously. AJR straight 4 with proper setup for 88 hockenheim short needed to go up to 6 front and read for me, to retain itself, but now has way more positioning ability, up from 5 f/r. And ARB up 2 to 140 at front and up 1 to 30 on rear

(Yes it is a long/fast straight setup and not Hockenheim 88, so its expected) I feel a lot of gratitude for this so thank you very much for your hard work

 

What I see is that the gain in the telemetry changes when change the gain in the game. and this gain is rmembered per car. so maybe your gain in game is 15% higher.

Edit: Seen the same behaviour as Stakanov. So forget above comment

 

No @Lars Mars ... my % of Gain for car is 100% ... For example (whatch image), if in game set gain 78 in the telemetry is 93 ... and the other values are also different ... i think the true real value are those of the telemetry ... but we wait for confirmation ...

Now I'm starting the tests on the 3.5 Exp2

 

It is also the case in that version.
I loaded now the 4.4 version and there the problem doesn't occur

 

Yes are the files after 4.3 .... 4.4 and 4.5, exp1 and 2
Starting Value in game 78-72-66-60....

01) modify the GAIN.....
Gain 78 in game = Gain 93 in telemetry
Gain 80 in game = Gain 94 in telemetry
Gain 85 in game = Gain 95 in telemetry
Gain 90 in game = Gain 97 in telemetry
Gain 95 in game = Gain 98 in telemetry
Gain 100 in game = Gain 100 in telemetry (only at 100 is the same)

02) Same with DP ... the value are different and only at 100 is the same!!!

03) Now left the other value and modify only the LFB... the value are the same in game and in telemetry but...
LFB 72 in game = LFB 72 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
LFB 77 in game = LFB 77 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
LFB 83 in game = LFB 83 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
LFB 88 in game = LFB 88 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
.....
LFB 100 in game = LFB 100 in telemetry

04) With FX the value are the same in game and in telemetry

Test in progress...

One thing is sure ... on the Gain and on the DP the value you set in game may not be what you imagine if HUD telemetry is right and all the value is the same only if you set Gain 100 and DP 100!!! @Kuku Maddog @Raceracerace

 

Basically (if the telemetry and therefore the output of the histogram is correct) the LFB in addition to the center modifies both the Gain and the DP ... and this variation (game vs telemetry) is reduced as the GAIN and the DP approach the maximum (i.e. 100) not being able to grow further .... since the 4.4 file, the only change that makes me think of this situation, or to this relationship, is within these lines of code:

(gain (+ gain (* lfb_slider (- 1 gain))))
(damping_slider (+ damping_slider (* lfb_slider (- 1 damping_slider))))

Paradoxically, I like the feeling of these last files more .... i love the 4.5Exp2 but the mathematical uncertainty displaces me ...

 

Well done @Karsten Hvidberg ! Your latest rFuktor 4.5 exp2 file feels great on my Simucube 2 Sport. The wheel center and the feel of grip loss has a very balanced feel and also the braking effect feels excellent, this file really gives me the needed confidence to push hard when chasing WR's in Time Trial mode.

With this file my AMS2 in-game settings are 40/10/30/10. True Drive settings I'm using are the same @Panos Schoino has posted earlier in this thread couple of pages back.

With the help of your file I just took the #1 place back in Imola leaderboards (Formula V12).

http://www.dropbox.com/s/xa314f2i04jouaq/ams2_f-v12_imola_gp_tumi_world_record_22-05-21.png?raw=1

http://www.dropbox.com/s/iq38ujibjj33k1d/ams2_f-v12_imola_gp_tumi_personal_record_22-05-21.png?raw=1

 

@Raceracerace Wow, that was quite the detailed write up ! Really enjoyed that.
Took your comments and Kuku's, and did some initial experiments, and I agree, much more stabile, yet detailed all the way. Need more time with it, and still sort of waiting for the next physics update to refine it all, but great work for sure Karsten !

 

I haven’t had a chance to revisit, but was playing around with things like having centre full at 1.0 as well as centre relax at equal 1.0 to boost low forces at idle state but not have them overlap so to speak, almost in a tightening and rapid fall off way. Maybe they just completely canceled each other out, I not sure , but it seems to add some more details to center.
Seemed to work quite well when using the 100/100 gain and power steering method.
Also I think it helps to have velocity scale up a bit to make sure the starting weight isn’t too light.
I also have the option to increase my wheels gain in profile as only at 75% , but will need to watch telemetry graph to see if it puts it closer to clipping, with current tune it always stays inside the range while having a pretty active signal.

 

deleted

 

Good morning.

I have watched this thread like a lot of people and although I haven't posted on a regular basis . I have tested a lot of the files and now think that 4.5 can make me move from 31.

In looking at the ffb file i don't look at graphs or delve into the file, and cant give massive flowing feedback, I don't tune or have buckets of skill, I drive by feel and above all else need to enjoy the experience

When I assess the ffb I'm looking for

1 to feel at ease
2 confident that when i turn in the car is going to point/go where in general i plan it to do so - sometimes there is a mismatch between input, sensation and result
3. experience of road feel
4. to be able to drive side by side around a corner knowing i can make it
5. when travelling in a pack that my actions are fed back quickly enough to influence my driving - see point two above
6. i feel connected to the car
7 i should be confident with a new car on a known track after a couple of laps (not necessarily fast but confident)

As a dd2 user, i have really struggled with this game, just like pc2 (which was past its life point when the DD2 came out) and haven't felt like putting the time into it, however, 45 and the recent updates are changing that, so thank you

For those interested my settings are

In game

G -32 -
LFB -0 - 10 - as this is now directly related to Gain & Damper settings i suggest you start at zero and sort your G & D settings first then use this as a fine-tune
FX -50 - fx is definitely needed as at zero there is no road feel
Damper - 32

You can then on individual cars use LFB or the on the fly overall gain button assignment

On wheel

FFB - 75
Lin - off
NDP - 20
NFR - 8
NIN - 6INT - 3
FEI - 100

I did try lower/higher wheel ffb game gain/damper lfb. With different combinations, you can pretty much get the same result so don't hunt around too much for differences in combinations.

Have fun

 

Having played around with 4.5 exp , I still ultimately think I will stick with my earlier 4.4 tune, as it just feels more accurate and detailed .
I dont get on with the springy feel and its somewhat dampening effect on rack feel with 4.5 .

and as @Stakanov has covered , there is something weird going on with it seemingly making its own ratio's . I also noticed its making the Telemetry display flicker for some reason.

Two versions of my tune posted below for those that might want to directly compare and make there own assessment of what centering works best for them.

edit :
refined files down the page

 

@Kuku Maddog
Maybe take a look at these settings and see if you can smooth the rack down a bit.
# Smooth slightly
(rack_momentum (smooth rack_momentum 0.016))

 

there is not anybody?

 

anybody what ??

 

Do you mean there are not many racing online? Or something else?

 

KUKU i just tried out your file.
1. i dont know my settings , so no worries
2. its GREAT how how this has evolved.
3. for me it almost feels real when driving over curbs etc
4. losing grip came suddenly in one corner, i guess i was too fast

 

thank you all for your hard work!

 

I see others do not like the 4.5 exp file. I for one think its great. I am racing at 2005 at Jacarepagua in the merc gt1 and I got to tell you, I may not be here daily to update - because I am not having a single issue on a TX wheel base and a solid wheel option - but its really good for me.

I can go harder and feel the physics etc better than ever before, still. All cars. The cars where this FFB is not good are just those cars where the physics seem to be lagging behind. But I have used this file with so many cars, I am talking 30+ as I have been playing and testing tracks which until the last few versions I have not wanted to race hard in several cars (owing to AI and difficulty) but now I am. Thats not saying its an easier file - I am saying its just so on-point and the steering is 'sure', so its cool.

In AMS2 on lesser wheels and all that, one has to appreciate, and this goes for me a little on a TX base compared to a dd1, in other games the grip imagine is in the center of this minimal/rudimentary mock-up and the analogy is a crop-plot or what we call dirt mounds in a field.

Old style

____OO____ (O= grip+grip fall-off and "___" is the physics on either side of you constantly working on you, yes, but also "___" represents the road, which also goes under the "00", moving like an 80's computer game on the screen, you move left and physics are felt on left pushing you back in accordance, you move right etc... and if you go too far at anyone time it 'snaps' when grip is lost, etc... "___" = road or surface) When you turn too hard or go outside the "00" you will spin out.

So imagine plants in rows, and the rows moving like a snake as the track winds its way around. The O is the grip and on either side of the O is where the physics come in, and its always bending like a snake. The above is the old style of gaming engine where it will not allow for a LOT of physics processing if you want to go wider and your older wheel will suffer because the un-realism is more pronounced the wider you get to feel the movement; so it gives you the sense of a car/road but over a shorter amount of parameters and distance to reduce the computational needs etc.

I have been saying this forever to people - and one of my first messages on here (to which someone told me to do not say that; I think he misunderstood me - I was talking about aiming for between a certain type of title, which may have been a bad analogy because he may have thought I didn't want a sim; nah its not that, a different kind of game which is finally more here)... well in those titles the grip falloff model is higher and everything is based round that. We know this because well I knew it already in many ways but the lead dev actually was talking about it the other day on the AMA. So refer to that over this for a more rounded discussion.

In AMS2 its more like

_____00000______

You can appreciate in the above that the 'more' you have of something the worse an older wheel may do in terms of feeling all the forces from the far left to the right, so the bad points may be more pronounced.

I am not saying an older wheel is not a good thing to have, rather I am saying that when it comes to the steering etc, I think the current 4.5 exp file is so good, because it adheres to the reality of the latter, and also it feel like actual rubber on a road surface.

So, for example...

x____x__00000__x___x

Where x is, is where it skips and grabs. The second model is much closer to reality... because its more real across a wider distance, just like a road would be. Yes speed may reduce the usable width of driving, but the truth is, older titles like to 'limit' physics more because of the older tyre model and the constraints of computer processing power and the equipment available back then. Its not necessarily a bad thing, but the new tyre model and physics in the madness engine seem to allow for a more expansive simulation across more of the road, without the snappy feel.

The grip fall off in older titles is more snappy I am trying to explain - and its probably why older wheels get along better with that. Cars behave more real in AMS2 in a variety of ways I do believe.

And the 4.5 exp file is a good thing. Yes we know in the SETA model it has more physical characteristics and its got more to it than other models, but I am on about how the game engine interacts with that and anything else to give a more expansive feel.

I am sorry if my description is a bit off or my words are not the same others would use, but I hope people see what I am getting at. The 4.5 exp file seems to be moving in the right direction.

__________________________

End message: what follows is a separate point in relation but not about exactly the above.

When you think about it, which I always understood - it makes a LOT of sense for.... hmmm? 4 company's to talk down this game and engine, tire model etc and pan it? I am not going to accuse anyone of anything, it is what it is, but now its here, instead of other terms, we can talk about how 'credit where its due' and all that kind of stuff over corporate shenanigans which help facilitate sales where you know in the future a significant alternative on newer tech is inbound; it will be at some point, so in the spirit of sales they do their best to alleviate the trickle of sales moving away - controlling the flow; I just look at where the info is going and leaving, where the flow is going to and leaving... and where the money is going to and leaving.... I am not calling anyone or thing out, in fact by the amount of this paragraph people may assume it has significance - NO... I am just saying it would not surprise me if devs come to comments sections on youtube to 'gently rib' the competition. And this could be fueling our misunderstanding of the limits of hardware and engines and tech etc.

We did reach a turning point after all through a combination of things, where we can now say with authority on some things "give ams2 credit where its due". So everyone in here has been of a help to that. Its went from 'nah it won't do anything', to 'it might do something one day'... to 'the game IS doing something', so hopefully the title can kick on from here.

 

hello, for high end 4.5 file can i use csw 2.5? or do i use regular file?