AI of the formula cars doesn't really work :(

First posted in the wrong subforum, so here is my 2nd try.

So guys i recently came back to the game and noticed there is not much going on in the multiplayer space, so i thought i would try ai races with the Formula Reiza and Formula Ultimate 2 , but unfurtunately it seems like the ai is not made for these cars at all. So here are all the things that i noticed, that for itself aren´t a major deal breaker, but combined completely kill the immersion. I don´t want to come of as insulting or anything, just trying to help with improving the game and make it playable for other people that like to race ai. All these findings are on 120 ai, so the maximum setting. I tried several tracks and the problems are similar at both cars.

1. Braking behavior
The ai brake extremely early, then release the brake a bit for some reason, to then somehow still be extremely slow at the apex. So when you follow them closely you first need to have a big gap or go for the Ricciardo style overtake, just staying with them at a 0.2s - 0.4s distance is completely impossible. It seems like they have double the grip compared the player and the game tries to attempt to hide that fact as good as possible. This becomes really apparent when a car is slow or stopped on track right in front of you, because then the ai somehow unlocks superpowers and their car stops almost instantly to avoid them, whereas you can only watch in horror when you send them to the moon, because obviously the players car doesn´t suddenly gain the same kind of superpowers.

2. Cornering speed
At fast corners they are too fast and at slow corners too slow. Becomes really clear when racing them at Spa, you always gain half a second at T1, to then lose the same amount at Pouhon.

3. Starting
They can´t start at all. Doesn´t matter if i use auto clutch or manual clutch, i always gain 4-8 positions.

4. Wet racing
On some tracks like Spa i am only losing 0.5-1s per lap, which can easily attributed to me being **** in the rain, but on other tracks like Imola they just have more grip then the player. No chance at all to keep up. This makes it unfurtunately impossible to run a custom championship with random weather.

5. DRS and dirty air
They don´t get dirty air at all, resulting in them always racing with less then a car length of space to each other, which not only looks ridicoulus, but also makes overtaking extremely hard, because if you want to overtake one, there is always another ready in front to be randomly slow on the apex (Point 1), so of course you take them out. This gets worsend by the fact that they have DRS on each other though, which in combination with the no dirty air problem means that there are always massive DRS train with the 2 cars in front overtaking each other constantly and nothing happening behind. However the DRS is also less effective then for the player, meaning you can easily overtake them when they have DRS, too, which is completely unrealistic.

And something completely unrelated to the ai but still a little sad when racing them: There are only a few tracks with DRS, and of course, it makes no sense to have DRS at a karting track for example, but on tracks like Kyalami, Cascais e.t.c. which are clearly suitable to F1, why aren´t there any DRS zones? It´s not hard to imagine where they would be, i reckon.

Is anyone else also experiencing this and are the devs aware that the ai is not very useable with these cars?

 

I'll give it a try.
Dev's are constantly busy adjusting AI.
What difficulty settings do you use?
Which version of SPA are you meaning?
What is your qualifying time on that circuit?
Are you using simulation settings or do have driving aids enabled?

 

I've experienced the same since day zero.

I used to complain a lot about it all, but then proceeded to get thrashed by some members of the community for complaining too much.

The devs response usually is partially agreeing that there is room for improvement, but that the AI is raceable in their opinion.

 

I just did some test dry races 112/low Spa 2022, full simulation

my qualifying lap-times are in the 1:44.xxx

The race-start is fine for me, It cost some concentration to maintain position
There are three trouble zones where I am not in sync with the AI cars

• They accelerate very fast from the first corner (La Source)
• And they can be very slow in the first Stavelot
• And I have to watch them not driving into my rear while braking for Les Combes

 

I run 120 ai and qualify like P10-P15, but i have lost track of my PBs, sorry. No driving aids for me, but i often use auto clutch. Both versions of Spa, but i mainly use the 2022 version. But it´s only one example, noticed these problems on every track i tried, Spa was just really obvious to me.

 

My experience racing against open wheelers AI is very much the same as you.

I posted something on the line at the Official AI thread about a race I had at Silverstone 2020 with Formula Reiza cars.

In general, those AI behaviours happen in every track I tested the F Reiza and both F Ultimates, so I agree with you, AI is not optimized for modern and fast open wheelers regarding realistic racecraft and dirty air behaviours those cars have irl.

AI works a lot better on touring cars tough.

 

I've noticed similar issues, though I've seen some improvements from time to time, I think they will get it right at some point.

They are other issues too. Generally, I find AI cars too aggressive on putting on parallel with someone else. This is obvious between them, but also with the player (for instance, it is really hard to race at Monaco, they dive-bomb a lot).

Worth mentioning, that though some issues are orthogonal to all tracks, at some places the state is much better. For instance, I remember some months ago I had beautiful races in modern F1 cars at RedBull Ring. It was impressive, DRS trains, really realistic behaviour, not many overtakes (but some of them, which is consistent with real life). It felt right, It was a blast.

Edit: Erased references to old cars and new vintage spa. I must read carefully before posting Anyway, everything else I wrote still applies.

 

The modern F1s just don't mesh well with me... The whole DRS thing was annoying to watch and whilst interesting to race with doesn't excite me as much as the older F1s... So my general time in them is limited...

As such I cannot compete on most tracks with 100% let alone 120%... Put me in a touring car and I'm using 115-120 depending on the track...

I do agree that the AI get the fast corners a little too well and the slower corners there's some room for improvement as I can make up time there from the faster corners... However on race starts I'm losing spots, not gaining them even when using the rev range that the F1 games stipulate for a good start...

The Devs have basically admitted that the AI runs on a different physics platform, however when car and track have had a lot of development time/focus a lot of these issues have been ironed out... And that's the main issue with the AI, they need to be tuned to each track for each car... Tracks like Vintage or 2022 Spa just haven't had the development time that 2020 Spa or Daytona have had...

The latest RC has definite improvements to the dirty air issue, although it needs further refinement it's a step in the right direction...

 

The AI is servicable, but ruins immersion by constantly fighting each other without actually overtaking, clipping the grass without losing speed, cutting corners without losing speed and constantly pulling moves the player simply can't. The constantly cutting grass and corners is something that should be fixed for all cars, as it's downright immersion breaking, but the constantly fighting each other is in my opinion related to the way auto ERS works. The auto ERS causes the following car to be much quicker than the leading car, until they drive side by side and the car that just got overtaken switches to 'attack' ERS mode. This leads to the cars driving side by side for half the lap which is completely unrealistic in F1.

Changing the way auto ERS works (maybe also deploy attack for a defending car) or downright changing the ERS mode for the AI only based on battery level should lead to a more natural looking race progression with the AI.

EDIT:
I have to edit this message as I just tried the RC and the auto ERS behavior is different to when I last tried it. Now the AI switches to attack for defending as well, which is a welcome change. They still pack race and for some reason they never overtake on the Kemmel straight: the following car opens DRS, closes in on the leading car, tucks in behind and closes DRS when it should have been an easy overtake. Still: very happy to see improvement and the Spa 1970 also looks great!

 

For me i wouldn´t agree with most of you here saying these are track specific tuning problems and the ai just needs a little adjustment to each track, that the devs couldn´t keep up with. These behaviors are in my opinion consistent and not track specific. You can witness the braking problem in Spa T1, Suzuka T16, Monza T3 and to an extent T1, Nürburgring T1, Hockenheim T5 and T7, so basically any braking zone. This also makes the entry speed into these corners too slow, correlating with my second point. However the "too fast in fast corners" problem is not applicable to sharper fast corners like Degners 1 and 2 for example, but only too fast corners with a longer radius, like Maggots, Beckets, Chapel or Pouhon, but also very consistent when only looking at these type of corners. The starting problems are also there at every track and of course the dirty air and DRS problems are also not track specific. The only track specific thing i witnessed, was the wet weather pace, everything else seems like a general problem.

 

Just a random lap of the AI driving the Ultimate Gen 2 at Monza. I don't think I need to put too many words to it, but 'realistic' is definitely not one of them.

- They cut grass and gravel
- They cut corners
- They play bumpercars
- They are extremely reluctant to overtaking, they open DRS, close up behind the car, go off throttle which closes DRS and just stay in formation on the straight
- They drive as if on rails

Long story short: please have a look at the AI with faster racing classes Reiza, this is game breaking.

 

I havent played much with the F-Ultimates, but I can see from videos that the DRS doesnt do much for the AI and it seems like the cars are too fast for the AI to handle. I agree they need some care to get them where some of the other classes are.