1.6 - Issues with grip

Greetings from Germany to the US!
Nice lap! Which car is it?

Back to topic: Would you be so king sharing your setup for any of the GT3 Gen2 cars with me?
I would love to test them!

 

This is what I feel and have wrote earlier too, it feels as the weight/load/grip is on front and if you trail brake deeper or have a lot of engine braking, the front just overpowers the rear.

I haven't checked / analyzed this from telemetry though, but all the setup changes that aim to weaken the front and speed up the load/weight transfer to rear seem to help with the issue. Even with setups where this has been done to the extreme as possible, the underteer you can have in entry or mid corner is still not hugely problematic and you don't seem to get much if any understeer on exit on throttle (you either get rotation from diff or the cars don't squat enough to weaken the front to make a difference).

Also setups that minimize the amount of dive is allowed seems to work, with the prototypes also setups where you are maximizing the bump stops and or springs and minizing dampers seem to work well.

I doubt it's not generic physics thing though, more like tuning and balancing certain classes / cars / tires further. Even now you can adjust the setups enough to balance it out quite a bit. I think you can still lean into the tires and push without losing it if you get that balance right with the setup. It just won't get be as understeery compared to LMU on average / default setups (also the TC in AMS2 doesn't prevent rear stepping out on throttle as much as it does in LMU on higher TC settings).

Even with the current behavior and possible imperfections, I find it's fun and engaging to drive those cars in AMS2.

 

Greetings to my friend in Germany. Thanks for the compliment.
Sure I'll try to message you the tune later when I have some free time if you would like to test.

 

I‘m looking forward to here from you and to test your setups!

 

Someone in this thread mentioned that the GTE's don't have this problem and after another frustrating spin out in a lfm race I gave them a go, and wow the difference is massive, so much better in the GTE's. It feels like they've gone overboard on the loss of grip over the limit on the GT3's specifically, almost seems like a miscalculation in the code possibly. The GTE's are so much more enjoyable to drive and I've emailed LFM support to consider swapping out the GT3's for GTE for this reason.
I really hope Reiza take a serous look at this, something just feels very off.

 

I haven't driven the GTE's for a while, but I don't feel the GT3's are that off that I would call it "very off"

In theory, it could be always in you machine. One thing to try is to cut-paste your setups folder somewhere else and restarting the game to see if changes anything with the GT3's.

I don't see GT3's spinning that much in the LFM races I race (I drove the lmdh in those), so either there is something wrong in your side or it's more of a skill and driving style problem... Though I do agree that it's not that hard to lose the rear in those, especially if you don't change the setup to mitigate the tendency to do that.

 

GM has now made a video about this issue, and the comments are showing something of a consensus. I feel like the devs would be do very well to see what the community are saying. Many like me have stopped playing it because it's just too unpredictable and frustrating.
eg:

 

GM did not make a video about "this issue", which seems to be different between GT3 and GTE for you, because he is of the opinion that this applies to every car in AMS2 including GTE and has had this opinion on every single iteration of AMS2s tyres afaik.

No need to attack anyone for his opinion, but he has a very different viewpoint than you do.

 

I honestly feel this is a setup issue or at least you can get rid of it with setup changes (nothing new in sims, in LMU/rF2 you are almost always lowering rear ARB to minimum or close, always setting minimum tire pressure etc.)

To me it seems that that during braking and corner entry phase, in a lot of cars, the setup is such that when the load goes to front, the car dives too much for what is needed (for rotation) and rear loses grip for too long, so when you start trail braking deeper, you still have the rear very loose and thus spin very easily as the front grip overwhelm the rear.

Now if you change the setup in such way that you add bump stops (I start around 20-30mm to try and adjust from there depending on car and track) and lower dampers, especially rear rebound to make the suspension on the rear rebound faster and keep better contact with the road, it's going to get a lot more forgiving on corner entry and allows deeper trail braking for added rotation when needed. On a lot of cars, going to minimum dampers with higher bump stop values seem to work remarkably well too (though no idea how optimal it is, but it doesn't seem to harm your pace), the cars doesn't seem to get overly bouncy (even if you are technically riding on bump stops). At the same time you are impacting aero, so it's also a good tool for adjusting that balance to be better for the track.

Other setup suggestions like lowering engine braking (increasing the value) tries to reduce the trail braking effect and thus increasing the rear grip and allowing you to trail brake manually, but I don't find it nearly as effective compared to adjusting the suspension for less travel and less dampened.

Adjusting the diff can help too, but again, I wouldn't start with that necessarily if it feels that the rear is too lose for too long, especially if the corner entry is downhill.

If you have very high bump stop values on the front especially, it can add understeer (for me, more noticiable on more aero dependent cars on faster corners), but because the front is generally quite strong on AMS2 cars (not all, but majority) and it's relatively easy to get on throttle rotation from the rear (don't open the diff too much to lose this benefit), even if the front would understeer a bit, it's not a huge problem.

 

Opening the diff, reducing clutches, reducing pre load, and increasing ramp will only make the problem worse on entry. You want to do the opposite, tighten the diff! A more locked (tight or closed) diff on entry will induce understeer. By reducing the difference in rotational speeds of the rear wheels it becomes more and more difficult to turn. Try it on a non GT3 with a fully customisable diff, no abs and no tc. P3/4 MetalMoro MRX a good example. On exit snaps will be caused by too tight diff settings, open to reduce oversteer on throttle but not so far as to spin the inside wheel too much.

 

yes, I at least didn’t suggest such, but in some cars there is too much on throttle rotation and you might want to open it up then a bit.

on something like gt3, going up to 8 with clutches might be beneficial, but on lmdh, lowering it to 4 might work