1.6 - Issues with grip

Greetings from Germany to the US!
Nice lap! Which car is it?

Back to topic: Would you be so king sharing your setup for any of the GT3 Gen2 cars with me?
I would love to test them!

 

This is what I feel and have wrote earlier too, it feels as the weight/load/grip is on front and if you trail brake deeper or have a lot of engine braking, the front just overpowers the rear.

I haven't checked / analyzed this from telemetry though, but all the setup changes that aim to weaken the front and speed up the load/weight transfer to rear seem to help with the issue. Even with setups where this has been done to the extreme as possible, the underteer you can have in entry or mid corner is still not hugely problematic and you don't seem to get much if any understeer on exit on throttle (you either get rotation from diff or the cars don't squat enough to weaken the front to make a difference).

Also setups that minimize the amount of dive is allowed seems to work, with the prototypes also setups where you are maximizing the bump stops and or springs and minizing dampers seem to work well.

I doubt it's not generic physics thing though, more like tuning and balancing certain classes / cars / tires further. Even now you can adjust the setups enough to balance it out quite a bit. I think you can still lean into the tires and push without losing it if you get that balance right with the setup. It just won't get be as understeery compared to LMU on average / default setups (also the TC in AMS2 doesn't prevent rear stepping out on throttle as much as it does in LMU on higher TC settings).

Even with the current behavior and possible imperfections, I find it's fun and engaging to drive those cars in AMS2.

 

Greetings to my friend in Germany. Thanks for the compliment.
Sure I'll try to message you the tune later when I have some free time if you would like to test.

 

I‘m looking forward to here from you and to test your setups!

 

Someone in this thread mentioned that the GTE's don't have this problem and after another frustrating spin out in a lfm race I gave them a go, and wow the difference is massive, so much better in the GTE's. It feels like they've gone overboard on the loss of grip over the limit on the GT3's specifically, almost seems like a miscalculation in the code possibly. The GTE's are so much more enjoyable to drive and I've emailed LFM support to consider swapping out the GT3's for GTE for this reason.
I really hope Reiza take a serous look at this, something just feels very off.

 

I haven't driven the GTE's for a while, but I don't feel the GT3's are that off that I would call it "very off"

In theory, it could be always in you machine. One thing to try is to cut-paste your setups folder somewhere else and restarting the game to see if changes anything with the GT3's.

I don't see GT3's spinning that much in the LFM races I race (I drove the lmdh in those), so either there is something wrong in your side or it's more of a skill and driving style problem... Though I do agree that it's not that hard to lose the rear in those, especially if you don't change the setup to mitigate the tendency to do that.

 

GM has now made a video about this issue, and the comments are showing something of a consensus. I feel like the devs would be do very well to see what the community are saying. Many like me have stopped playing it because it's just too unpredictable and frustrating.
eg:

 

GM did not make a video about "this issue", which seems to be different between GT3 and GTE for you, because he is of the opinion that this applies to every car in AMS2 including GTE and has had this opinion on every single iteration of AMS2s tyres afaik.

No need to attack anyone for his opinion, but he has a very different viewpoint than you do.

 

I honestly feel this is a setup issue or at least you can get rid of it with setup changes (nothing new in sims, in LMU/rF2 you are almost always lowering rear ARB to minimum or close, always setting minimum tire pressure etc.)

To me it seems that that during braking and corner entry phase, in a lot of cars, the setup is such that when the load goes to front, the car dives too much for what is needed (for rotation) and rear loses grip for too long, so when you start trail braking deeper, you still have the rear very loose and thus spin very easily as the front grip overwhelm the rear.

Now if you change the setup in such way that you add bump stops (I start around 20-30mm to try and adjust from there depending on car and track) and lower dampers, especially rear rebound to make the suspension on the rear rebound faster and keep better contact with the road, it's going to get a lot more forgiving on corner entry and allows deeper trail braking for added rotation when needed. On a lot of cars, going to minimum dampers with higher bump stop values seem to work remarkably well too (though no idea how optimal it is, but it doesn't seem to harm your pace), the cars doesn't seem to get overly bouncy (even if you are technically riding on bump stops). At the same time you are impacting aero, so it's also a good tool for adjusting that balance to be better for the track.

Other setup suggestions like lowering engine braking (increasing the value) tries to reduce the trail braking effect and thus increasing the rear grip and allowing you to trail brake manually, but I don't find it nearly as effective compared to adjusting the suspension for less travel and less dampened.

Adjusting the diff can help too, but again, I wouldn't start with that necessarily if it feels that the rear is too lose for too long, especially if the corner entry is downhill.

If you have very high bump stop values on the front especially, it can add understeer (for me, more noticiable on more aero dependent cars on faster corners), but because the front is generally quite strong on AMS2 cars (not all, but majority) and it's relatively easy to get on throttle rotation from the rear (don't open the diff too much to lose this benefit), even if the front would understeer a bit, it's not a huge problem.

 

Opening the diff, reducing clutches, reducing pre load, and increasing ramp will only make the problem worse on entry. You want to do the opposite, tighten the diff! A more locked (tight or closed) diff on entry will induce understeer. By reducing the difference in rotational speeds of the rear wheels it becomes more and more difficult to turn. Try it on a non GT3 with a fully customisable diff, no abs and no tc. P3/4 MetalMoro MRX a good example. On exit snaps will be caused by too tight diff settings, open to reduce oversteer on throttle but not so far as to spin the inside wheel too much.

 

yes, I at least didn’t suggest such, but in some cars there is too much on throttle rotation and you might want to open it up then a bit.

on something like gt3, going up to 8 with clutches might be beneficial, but on lmdh, lowering it to 4 might work

 

Has he gotten a drivers licens yet or is the clown still going hard on AC as the best and most realistic sim in the world?

 

I just noticed somethinf wierd.
I am at friends house, helping him out for a clean windows installation.
Ams2 was on another drive,so it stayed there and later recognized by steam.
Performed updates,then deleted setup folder.
I jumped in a gt3 car and found it extremely slidey.it was both the merc evo and the 992.
Thhen I just clicked on "reset" on the setup. Nothing changed on the values,of course,but the car afterwards was night and day, the same as I had in mind from my pc.

After this click on the "reset" button I jumped back to the amg and also there it was fine afterwards.

I just wanted to share what happened to me. Easy and quick thing to try out for those who suddenly find cars very slidey.
Maybe there was a hiccup or somethinf related to loading default setup values.

 

I had some time on the weekend to race the AI on my favourite tracks in V1.6.6.1 and many times I thought to myself "did the car not feel more planted?" and "did the AI not act much smarter the last time I played?" It somehow felt like I was in 1.5 again - not bad, but not as amazing as 1.6 felt when it released. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it - maybe it was just subjective. But now I read DannyDB's post and he descirbes exactly what I felt!

- The GT3s/GT4s feel a lot more slidey than before and I struggle to find proper grid in long corners.
(call me crazy but even the Aston GT3 felt better planted after its release than in 1.6.6.1)
- The AI drives bumper to bumper without really overtaking each other - they look like they are glued to the racing line (yes, even after a qualifying session).
- Faster classes struggle heavily to overtake slower cars. On Road Atlanta I followed an AI Porsche 992 GT3 for 3 whole laps until it managed to overtake the 2 GT4-cars in front of it. The AI (set to 'high' agression and skill 98) was very reluctant and always backed out.

I know this post is not worth much without videos to back it all up. I just found it strange that other players seem to have the same impressions at the moment. Feel free to use the agree/disagree reaction on this post as I would like to know how others recieve the state of the game.

 

in relation to the slidey feeling, if you want please have a look at the post I made some days ago.
1.6 - Issues with grip

I went through this feeling and somehow encountered an issue which is already known and under investigation by the team.

 

Yes, I mostly agree on that.
Actually, as a regular online player in our own little league, this "slippery cars" issue seems to come mostly from the "tyre wear" parameter.
Usually, during a race if that parameter is set to realistic, after 6 to 8 laps, the car becomes extremely slippery from one lap to the other, all parameters equal, and especially tyre temp constant around 90-92 degrees...
Then, if you manage to stay on track after the surprise of having your car suddenly drifting in every corner, it reverts back to normal after 2-3 laps and the car feels normal again.
It is very strange and definitely a recurrent issue, so much that we ended up deactivating that parameter. Like that, everything is fine, but it is a bit sad not to be able to use tyre wear as a strategic parameter then.
Something seems to be off as it has nothing to do with tyre overtemp, those being green on the HUD and at a constant normal temperature. And I could understand that wear degrades the grip after a while, but it seems to be very sudden, from one lap to the other, and then the grip should not come back after 2-3 laps if your tyres were worn out?
Maybe something to look into.
Anyway, huge congrats to Reiza, as AMS2 is really becoming great in more and more aspects.

 

IIRC they’re looking into tyre curing, blistering and graining with V1.7 so this could lead to better overheating characteristics

 

Yes, I am sure it will be fixed at some point.
But as I said, it seems to have nothing to do with tyre temperatures, as those are normal and stable when that happens.
And slick tyres blistering and graining after 6-8 laps? And being fine again 2-3 laps later?
Sounds really weird to me...

And by the way, the setup thing mentioned above happened several times to me also.
After finding the car really strange and slippery straight out of the garage, went back and did a setup reset. No parameters changed as setup was supposed to be default already, but the car behaviour changed completely for the better after that...
It's like a wrong setup had been loaded in the background, while still showing the right one in the garage.

 

So, after following some advice and insights from this forum, I gave the Corvette GT3 Gen 2 a try at Road Atlanta.
In the same session, I tested the default setup without touching anything, and during the entire stint I couldn’t even get the tires into their proper operating window. The car was sliding all over the place—it was horrible.

As suggested, I went back to the pits, hit the RESET button in the setup menu, and went back out on track. I immediately improved my lap times by 2 seconds, with the left-side tires in the right temperature range and the right ones almost there. The difference was night and day. For the first time since the release of the 1.6 patch this past fall, I actually started to feel connected to the GT3s again.

Still not satisfied, I went back into the pits to tweak the setup a bit and get rid of the oversteer. I increased the clutch settings, added a couple of clicks to the differential preload, set brake pressure to 100%, and lowered TC and ABS to 4 (which you can safely do once the tires are warm enough). That gave me another half a second off my lap time, with all four tires now in the optimal temperature window and a front end that finally doesn’t wash out mid-corner.

So, what can I say? Honestly, at this point I’m starting to wonder—could there be an issue with the default setup that the game loads when a session first starts?