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Automobilista 2 Custom Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Karsten Hvidberg, May 30, 2020.

  1. Manuel Staedel

    Manuel Staedel Active Member Reiza Backer

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    For me, the force, when you brake in corner, too high.
    Where can i reduce it a little, please? The complete another part are realy nice. Thank you!

    EDIT: I just found it,
    (brake_feel 0.85)
    Now i can test a little with it.
     
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  2. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    I also like the feeling of 4.5 EXP more ;) ... but I don't know if an anomaly happens to me alone :( ... in the game a custom septum with the slides at 78-72-66-58, well as soon as the race starts if I go in vision telemetry meeting 93-82-76-63, happens to you too or just to me ???

    If I switch to the default profile, the normal values set in the game menu return to telemetry, if I return to the custom profile, the anomaly of the telemetry values restarts ...

    I like the file a lot but I would like to understand if I use the Gain set to 78 or that of the telemetry 93 ??? :)
     
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  3. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite understand what you mean, I am afraid?
     
  4. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    Sorry my english .... whatch if the TELEMETRY report the same values of the game settings!!! ;)

    Edit: In game HUD TELEMETRY (histogram) report me for example a gain of 93 when i set 78...
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  5. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I never noticed that in the telemetry report actually :)

    In 4.5, in the file the LFB slider now also adjusts the gain and damping slider directly. So it seems that readout displays the values coming coming out after the custom script has executed.
    It's these 2 lines:

    (gain (+ gain (* lfb_slider (- 1 gain))))
    (damping_slider (+ damping_slider (* lfb_slider (- 1 damping_slider))))

    It was added as a convenience feature as it's less complex to understand the LFB slider than to understand how you can use gain & power-steeinr together to achieve a stronger center.


    If you think LFB impacts gain & damping(power steering) too much, you can either:
    * Delete those lines completely & adjust gain & damping directly as you want them
    or
    * Change them to something like:
    (gain (+ gain (* 0.5 lfb_slider (- 1 gain))))
    (damping_slider (+ damping_slider (* 0.5 lfb_slider (- 1 damping_slider))))

    It is only for convenience for adjusting center feel as simple as possible.
     
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  6. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    No I don't want to change the sensations that are better in this 4.5Exp ... and I understand the different function of the GAIN and LFB ... I just want to understand if the real value is the one visible in the telemetry HUD or what in the game ???

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Good question, I have no idea.
    @Domagoj Lovric maybe you can help us understand these?
     
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  8. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    rFuktor 4.5 experimental 2 - high end file.

    Adds:

    * Normal static force reduction filter.

    This is different than the pre-existing one(that has been renamed slightly), as it is always active, no matter downforce & ffb strength.

    It reduces some of the force of the "slow" part of the signal, so the effect is that you still get initial force, but then it is quickly relaxed.
    The idea is that this should help feel the change in the slow force more.

    These are the values added to control it:
    (static_force_reduction_timing 0.2)
    (normal_static_force_reduction 0.15)

    High end file attached.
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Well-Known Member

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    when you described it like this a wee theory popped into my head and it seems to be valid after testing.

    You can basically just set gain and power steering to 100 and it should be pretty close to ideal . Then it’s just a matter of find best lfb setting to control rotation speed .
    If you want a little more strength you can just lower the power steering or perhaps boost per car gain ?

    But ultimately the theory seems to work quite well on my wheel and tune in practice.
     
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  10. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    4.5 and I understand its the high end file, 4.4 was good too but this one is just far more balanced imo from what I saw with them (4.5 is). Yes for me setting it to 100 gain and 100 dampener, then I set 65 LFB just now and its the v12 but also some gt3's and they went really fine - they were the weaker ones a few updates ago (and in general) but now they feel full and like there's tyres at the end of a rack.

    I set fx at 55 for this tx, and its remarkable. With a little bit of adjustment you can find something you will like. In saying that its fantastic anyway. Its got to be in the top 2 for ffb surely. We just went out to see the be quiet 2 movie and this will definitely continue the nights of entertainment. Even will get the other half to check how much its all improved since last time.

    For me slides come back better than ever, and the wheel angle and slip seems much better to 1 control and 2 as one may expect, so the ffb is really helping gain a control even when it is out of control (to be out of control in a better feeling way)... its good.

    As for speed into a corner ok while there is more rotation potential (and there is a good indication of oversteer/understeer with 4.4 and 4.5) its not too bad and maybe the track the setup is not the best for, but its more ready to rotate. It can really turn in now at 150-200km's so its possible I felt 80% of that was legitimately there and didn't feel weird, so I know its an approximation and its fine for now well done, I think its preferable because I am of course re-adjusting to turning and its better make no mistake; and mid corner is like you can adjust better, and out of a corner maybe there is slightly too much rotation but I have not felt the need at 65 iirc to adjust it down, and modulating the brake really pays off, so like a plane touching down to borrow a metaphor - you can brush the wheels far better before taking off then back down, its more feelable/feeling. I like it and it is really coming across that the car is at the edge of its limit more than ever. I like it and done at imola and brands, so I am familiar with what I was feeling before to now.

    edit: then after ten mins, I put lfb from 65 to 50 and it is much tighter for movement in the v12. So maybe 55 will be my final resting place here, but the 4.5 file feels really on-point. People will get a lot of utility out of it surely. Maybe the slip is over-doing it for me but thats how slips are, but remember I am deliberately trying to drive a little too fast to get more ffb in a short amount of time. Proper entry's,mids and exits at the correct speed feel so good. At hockenheim 88 short there is all that hopping and skipping and its great man.

    With this patch and the custom ffb basically when I want to use the brakes just to touch them to realign before the corner entry and there's a car beside you - there's so much more 'command' there between driver/ffb/and road-car. Cool. So I would probably leave it at 50 lfb for now, too.

    And with low acceleration especially the ffb "pickup" or tightening up and realignment of the wheels feels really nice now. So all the transitioning seems rather wonderful off load to load, under-load to steering and off acceleration; its feels like a lot of movement and the car is alive. Great.

    edit 2 and I like how the wheel will now take control of itself a fair bit more often and bounce back and forward without wanting to loosely spill off the road. Another solid tick - done with 70 LFB.... at 100 lfb I was getting a red bar, and 50 maybe was a little low, 65 was ok, but 70 is even better. for a tx wheel don't forget

    So I like it because you need to use the brake like always but modulate it properly, but now also with the slip being just right - the throttle and I really appreciate that. In titles like Rfactor 2 that is just not the case when you can just put the pedal to the metal and brake as hard as you want, now in AMS2 its almost as if that being rewarded (to manage these things properly), and its more like a real car/race imo.

    Bravo -
    for me I now have to lift off the pedal more and it feels like a moving car, when racing, to position, so its lifting and putting down and oversteer/understeer, modulating stop/start and its really good. AMS2 has so much control and the ffb really helps draw that out.

    eg I just rotated the rear under acceleration round I think turn 5 at hockenheim 88 short, looking at first time to stands, and I could feel the slip like it was on asphalt/bitchumen. It was solid entry, loss of grip and grab, firming up mid-turn and solid exit, and the grab was apparent at various levels throughout. Totally legit physics as it was constantly gaining friction/traction and momentum, at the end it stopped going left too much with acceleration/modulation, and it tucked back in and went forward, smoothly, like a bell-curve with a jut at the end before correcting straight.

    - with the above setup curbs feel really nice at montreal; you hit the curb wrong and you will fly off or into the air, or spin sideway/forwards out. Other sims you often just go over the curbs.
    -the ultima race at speilberg short is brilliant; way more cars are more versatile and good - I am using 4.5, previous version 4.4 for a little bit, but mostly 4.0. BIG changes.
    -downforce for this version 4.5 exp is going to be needed to dialed up a fraction for many setups, which makes more sense than previously. AJR straight 4 with proper setup for 88 hockenheim short needed to go up to 6 front and read for me, to retain itself, but now has way more positioning ability, up from 5 f/r. And ARB up 2 to 140 at front and up 1 to 30 on rear

    (Yes it is a long/fast straight setup and not Hockenheim 88, so its expected) I feel a lot of gratitude for this so thank you very much for your hard work
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  11. Lars Mars

    Lars Mars Member

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    What I see is that the gain in the telemetry changes when change the gain in the game. and this gain is rmembered per car. so maybe your gain in game is 15% higher.

    Edit: Seen the same behaviour as Stakanov. So forget above comment
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  12. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    No @Lars Mars ... my % of Gain for car is 100% ... For example (whatch image), if in game set gain 78 in the telemetry is 93 ... and the other values are also different ... i think the true real value are those of the telemetry ... but we wait for confirmation ... ;)

    Now I'm starting the tests on the 3.5 Exp2 :)
     
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  13. Lars Mars

    Lars Mars Member

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    It is also the case in that version.
    I loaded now the 4.4 version and there the problem doesn't occur

     
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  14. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    Yes are the files after 4.3 .... 4.4 and 4.5, exp1 and 2 ;)
    Starting Value in game 78-72-66-60....

    01) modify the GAIN.....
    Gain 78 in game = Gain 93 in telemetry
    Gain 80 in game = Gain 94 in telemetry
    Gain 85 in game = Gain 95 in telemetry
    Gain 90 in game = Gain 97 in telemetry
    Gain 95 in game = Gain 98 in telemetry
    Gain 100 in game = Gain 100 in telemetry (only at 100 is the same)

    02) Same with DP ... the value are different and only at 100 is the same!!!

    03) Now left the other value and modify only the LFB... the value are the same in game and in telemetry but...
    LFB 72 in game = LFB 72 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
    LFB 77 in game = LFB 77 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
    LFB 83 in game = LFB 83 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
    LFB 88 in game = LFB 88 in telemetry but modify other voice (DP or Gain)
    .....
    LFB 100 in game = LFB 100 in telemetry

    04) With FX the value are the same in game and in telemetry

    Test in progress... ;)

    One thing is sure ... on the Gain and on the DP the value you set in game may not be what you imagine if HUD telemetry is right and all the value is the same only if you set Gain 100 and DP 100!!! @Kuku Maddog @Raceracerace
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  15. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    Basically (if the telemetry and therefore the output of the histogram is correct) the LFB in addition to the center modifies both the Gain and the DP ... and this variation (game vs telemetry) is reduced as the GAIN and the DP approach the maximum (i.e. 100) not being able to grow further .... since the 4.4 file, the only change that makes me think of this situation, or to this relationship, is within these lines of code:

    (gain (+ gain (* lfb_slider (- 1 gain))))
    (damping_slider (+ damping_slider (* lfb_slider (- 1 damping_slider))))

    Paradoxically, I like the feeling of these last files more .... i love the 4.5Exp2 but the mathematical uncertainty displaces me ... o_O
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  16. tUMi

    tUMi Member

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    Well done @Karsten Hvidberg ! Your latest rFuktor 4.5 exp2 file feels great on my Simucube 2 Sport. The wheel center and the feel of grip loss has a very balanced feel and also the braking effect feels excellent, this file really gives me the needed confidence to push hard when chasing WR's in Time Trial mode. :)

    With this file my AMS2 in-game settings are 40/10/30/10. True Drive settings I'm using are the same @Panos Schoino has posted earlier in this thread couple of pages back.

    With the help of your file I just took the #1 place back in Imola leaderboards (Formula V12). :cool:

    http://www.dropbox.com/s/xa314f2i04jouaq/ams2_f-v12_imola_gp_tumi_world_record_22-05-21.png?raw=1

    http://www.dropbox.com/s/iq38ujibjj33k1d/ams2_f-v12_imola_gp_tumi_personal_record_22-05-21.png?raw=1
     
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  17. Peter Stefani

    Peter Stefani Active Member Reiza Backer

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    @Raceracerace Wow, that was quite the detailed write up ! Really enjoyed that.
    Took your comments and Kuku's, and did some initial experiments, and I agree, much more stabile, yet detailed all the way. Need more time with it, and still sort of waiting for the next physics update to refine it all, but great work for sure Karsten !
     
  18. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t had a chance to revisit, but was playing around with things like having centre full at 1.0 as well as centre relax at equal 1.0 to boost low forces at idle state but not have them overlap so to speak, almost in a tightening and rapid fall off way. Maybe they just completely canceled each other out, I not sure , but it seems to add some more details to center.
    Seemed to work quite well when using the 100/100 gain and power steering method.
    Also I think it helps to have velocity scale up a bit to make sure the starting weight isn’t too light.
    I also have the option to increase my wheels gain in profile as only at 75% , but will need to watch telemetry graph to see if it puts it closer to clipping, with current tune it always stays inside the range while having a pretty active signal.
     
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  19. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Well-Known Member

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  20. inthebagbud

    inthebagbud Member Reiza Backer

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    Good morning.

    I have watched this thread like a lot of people and although I haven't posted on a regular basis . I have tested a lot of the files and now think that 4.5 can make me move from 31.

    In looking at the ffb file i don't look at graphs or delve into the file, and cant give massive flowing feedback, I don't tune or have buckets of skill, I drive by feel and above all else need to enjoy the experience

    When I assess the ffb I'm looking for

    1 to feel at ease
    2 confident that when i turn in the car is going to point/go where in general i plan it to do so - sometimes there is a mismatch between input, sensation and result
    3. experience of road feel
    4. to be able to drive side by side around a corner knowing i can make it
    5. when travelling in a pack that my actions are fed back quickly enough to influence my driving - see point two above
    6. i feel connected to the car
    7 i should be confident with a new car on a known track after a couple of laps (not necessarily fast but confident)

    As a dd2 user, i have really struggled with this game, just like pc2 (which was past its life point when the DD2 came out) and haven't felt like putting the time into it, however, 45 and the recent updates are changing that, so thank you

    For those interested my settings are

    In game

    G -32 -
    LFB -0 - 10 - as this is now directly related to Gain & Damper settings i suggest you start at zero and sort your G & D settings first then use this as a fine-tune
    FX -50 - fx is definitely needed as at zero there is no road feel
    Damper - 32

    You can then on individual cars use LFB or the on the fly overall gain button assignment

    On wheel

    FFB - 75
    Lin - off
    NDP - 20
    NFR - 8
    NIN - 6INT - 3
    FEI - 100

    I did try lower/higher wheel ffb game gain/damper lfb. With different combinations, you can pretty much get the same result so don't hunt around too much for differences in combinations.

    Have fun
     
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