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Jimmy's latest AMS2 review

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by farcar, Jun 17, 2021.

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  1. Marius H

    Marius H Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Please don't hate on racrace, guys. He's probably just social or into the spectrum, like me. Ofcourse his replies are a bit on the lengthy side and should be more to the point, and shorter. Something racrace can work on. On a forum lengthy posts aren't that great to read anyway. Unless it's the topic-starter. Anyway to racrace: Welcome here on the forum. Try to shorten your replies a lot more. Long posts are a bit annoying for people due clutter, etc. We don't want you to go. You've a valueable member like anyone else. Except @CrimsonEminence :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:
     
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  2. Fizzy

    Fizzy Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Well it’s funny you should say that. I have autism and I find it pretty offensive when people diagnose each other on forums, or worse still, try to use it as an insult.

    upload_2021-6-17_15-22-7.jpeg
     
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  3. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence German localization/Testing Reiza Backer

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  4. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    download.jpg
     
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  5. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

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    Noun.

    A Buddhist monastery or temple :)
     
  6. Marius H

    Marius H Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    @Fizzy Don't worry. That means people are jealous/impressed because we are so intelligent or a bit hard-headed into our interests/hobby's. All kind of knowledge and so many things to say, haha. The only thing I find annoying is 'Everyone is a bit autistic', like my mom says. Haha. Anyway. Topic went offtopic. Apologies for that.

    Regarding Jimmer: I think he has to concentrate on his real life racing and on his health. Twitch/Streaming/Youtube is fun, but I think hes too much into it and doesn't like it anymore. No way to escape because he crave the dopamines/serotonines, etc.
     
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  7. Rujasu

    Rujasu New Member

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    Or maybe he just doesn't like how AMS2 drives. That's a perfectly valid stance to take, there's no need to rationalize it away with armchair psychoanalysis.
     
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  8. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    Oh I didn't know sorry. I only say that as a phrase. I can cut that out. Well I actually do like how it drives now more so after 1.2 and then when I made that custom file which YMMV. My wheel is now the best its been in the game. But anyway wow guys - thanks for looking out for me. This discussion suddenly got interesting. Yeah I should actually trim my word count - a lot of the time, and no I am not autistic but fully appreciate some people have special needs or their brains work in a different manner, and there are people in my extended family who are challenged in ways. Yes though we all can act autistic, especially if we are technically minded. Pretty sure as a spectrum it has varying degrees. And of course we can at times believe like me that we can fix things if we just find the right button or something and some are just born over analytical.

    I never used to like analysis - I actually had to practice it. Speculation, models, stats. Not my fave thing, but it has good utility attached to it.

    Yeah thats the thing. I think I am only analyzing peoples reactions to the fortunes of the game, I had already made up my own mind. I think the game prior to the update was in a holding pattern. Myself I am fully enjoying it.

    The trouble is I begin posts and just speak off the top of my head.

    __

    The point I think, is I look at things from an investment standpoint, then project, then consumer. People may be dubious about Broadbents agenda, its a legitimate question - I just wonder if the project was all a part of the time the sms stuido was looking to offload/recoup. Codemasters didn't pay a cent for them really (revenue wise), having raised the money, so the AMS2 project is kind of superfluous to the whole scene, which means they get to act independently and not beholden to that. Pcars was meant to be fun as codemasters likes fun games, and to show case the engine as well AMS2 was meant to be realistic.

    Thats how it was presented. To us and to this day thats how we see things. Its still fun, I am only being pointed when I make various types of posts.

    What I am saying is no we don't know if the game can generate significant amounts of revenue. The whole thing is not predicated on popularity. Its predicated on showcasing the engine; if it was meant to be an exclusive engine then it wouldn't be in the position it was then. That J Broadbent doesn't like it is not a massive surprise, and that I don't play it all that much, the same. Yes recently I have, but is there really too much wrong with it apart from the fact that its not fully baked yet. Meaning the question becomes will it ever be. And does the video need to carry any great significance. I've accepted it not up to snuff. lol I did it months ago. I think I legit made it better, but thems the breaks.

    30 million raised capital is a drop in the ocean, then 5% compared to codemasters 1.2 billion sale, and then E.A, I bet you these proofs of concept were in the pipeline, the engine may have its faults for all we know but its a valuable piece of intellectual property; and AMS2 is a kind of sidelight to that, but pertinent. Right now it no longer matters if AMS2 can be 'that' game or not, but I think you will find that it can still be fairly decent. With Pcars 3 I think you will find that its like it is, a game with no reason you know with bolloons and stars and crap, because its just meant to grab attention of investors who want to buy low or realize value - thats why the deal is structured like it is. And of course to slot into a company with a kind of history of that kind of thing. Its not a consumer orientated project at heart. These guys don't know whats going to sell exactly. Not all games generate any revenue, so AMS2 is going better than a certain percentage.

    The guys at Reiza are also working on their M.Engine skills right now, see. Its not all bad. Especially if it becomes an engine of some kind of choice - you don't know where those guys any of them could be working in 5 or so years.

    Thats me - all that other stuff/posts here is for other people. I think the issue will have some kind of lifecycle, it'll be something else next week.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  9. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    Sorry, ooops - just used up my one post... You are partly right. I actually don't like its consistency. I think some things were done wrong, of course now its obvious in hindsight. People have already mentioned them, if I jog your memory it will all come flooding back - smaller pool of tracks and cars, more focus, etc etc. Focus on the physics, maybe a multiplayer thing. Did it need 25 f1 cars!? When the top 3 are so very good?

    I just want to say about brunos posts yeah the btw thing haha I did say something about that too. You people have corrupted me. He's alright. Many eyes make light work of things and he did tell of some good stuff

    Just on all that buy out stuff - most of it is corporate nonsense. There's not 160 million pounds there, trust me. It will all be amortized away or its already thin-air. lol if you think SMS is going to make a game soon worth 160 million pounds, it was to boost stocks etc, then I have a bridge to sell you in London. Its called London Bridge - you'll love it. The cash is just like front loading to put something on your own books, can't let it drag a sheet down and any payments to people etc. Liabilities are not what a stock price likes. Their EBITA just gone, must of been harrowing...then they have obligations. And somehow they are to get money going forward for products I do not think any one will even buy... very strange articles on the matters. But the owner will get shares in the company, not worth a stack, but its common, now he is tied to the fortunes of the company - I tell you, we all know their track record here, they better have some better ideas than Pcars 2 and 3.

    I knew a company who when they wanted to reduce taxable income and all the rest, you have to keep internal records of your purchases right between places - they would just increase the rent to their own business....see.

    Have to keep Broadbents opinions in perspective - he is a consumer, played the game, didn't like it. Its because there's nothing new. AMS2 is still waiting to cross over the line on those things, but 1.2 was a good start - thats all I ever said on the matter. Play it enough and the game does not hold up. RF2 has an excuse with mods and AC, can say they're old. AMS2 is in the middle of a dev phase. I reckon be thankful for Broadbents video, and we all know how funky the review business is, but I don't care because its a decent wake up call in terms of a product and consistency. He'll always have one over AMS2. Guys, these are the same critisisms many have levelled against the product on here as well.

    Its because he seemed to snub the game maybe, well there's no way to put it delicately. Obviously he tried his best.

    Still we must think about claims made by various product makers and of course support the people making them if you believe in a product. I do not extend this, that far however, its like being roped into something, see. I do however believe in candid feedback and wish the makers the absolute best - but don't forget that J Broadbent also did that. Could it be that J Broadbent is trusted in some capacity. He was giving feedback.

    Broadbent is also a fan - what he was doing is called "fan service". He may do business in there, but he doesn't run a company and sell a product. He is in as good a position as any, influence or not (in fact he has to be more accurate than most) to provide such things.

    If he gets 1 million views, but then shows poor stuff, he will lose views and viewers over time. I thought it was a thorough run down, done in his style. Which is for show a lot of it, but thats entertainment for you.

    __

    Too long? Yada yada life goes on - then one day, Ian Bell and co you used to know as Pcars people, are working on f1 2025, under the direction and workflows and execution of codemasters with the Madness engine or something. A nice little game of leapfrog. You'd be amazed at what a publisher can do for you. and me: an editor haha. We could go back to the bad old days, when games company's had to risk everything just to make a title. The harry potter author she bucked the trend. Its not impossible - or how game of thrones was a 3 book series (until it was an 8 book series even though he said 'I don't have enough story'. This is why I wish the best for Reiza, make no mistake I want them to do well. Get off broadbents back would ya's haha
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  10. RockettSally

    RockettSally New Member

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    My problem with most of these YouTubers is that they just don't give the game a fair shake.

    Those who gave and found something amazing on it, like SimRacing604 and random callsign, really loved the piece of content SO MUCH that they made a video praising it - even pointing out on how the game still needs some fixes here and there.
     
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  11. RWB Charger

    RWB Charger Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I wonder if he deleted the setup folder first as instructed? ;-)
     
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  12. Roy Niessink

    Roy Niessink Active Member

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    The guy wears slippers and then complains the car feels not connected to the track, how can you take that serious?
     
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  13. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Guys let´s ease up on the personal insults please - people are entitled to have their takes and they´re even entitled to bad or shallow takes, and we can in turn have our take on their takes - ad hominem however is not part of the game.

    If there´s anything worth objecting here is how completely out of proportion the role of youtubers and influencers in general has become into shaping what is right or wrong, good or bad in this world and that´s a problem that expands way beyond sim racing. One is not an expert on a topic just because they can put their opinion into a video in an entertaining way - everyone is entitled to like or respect certain opinions, but it´s a mistake to attribute them the power to give verdicts on anything, and the people going nuts about it are actually also contributing to that dynamic - it´s just a guy´s opinion, no reason to flip out about it or lay it value that isn´t really warranted.
     
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  14. mister dog

    mister dog Active Member Reiza Backer

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    He still loves to do a lap and share it with the community, that's why we all love him. But he should be careful not to draw general conclusions so fast whilst not giving a game a thorough go-through at least. If Jimmer draws hasty conclusions way too many people will take it a face value.
     
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  15. farcar

    farcar Active Member

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    Exactly my concern with the reach his channel has.

    I'd love to have seen a 'Here's all the the progress since my last video' rather than just taking the Caddie for a quick spin.

    Reiza deserve better!
     
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  16. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    this is a double, but I have seen some posts and you guys are switched on but I would clue you into something we don't often think about.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  17. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    Well it works both ways, thats the media cycle. Its no different to facts and a headline, his stance and what others want.

    To people here, what happened was AMS2 got its moment in the sun. And it wanted to shine. But it didn't was the conclusion. Sure, it could have maybe, but didn't.

    What happened to the guy who was making a video was he's doing racing things in his life and playing other games and doing a lot of stuff - ams2 is just a thing for him and he had a little crack at it. It wasn't this big grand standing show or anything. Its just another thing.

    "Exactly my concern with the reach his channel has"

    DO YOU guys understand the media cycle? Video's, YouTube, etc. Obviously not.

    What people see is the madness engine and games like need for speed being a long time ago and most games now being fast and the furious - ams2, pcars 1 and 2 and ALL those games have a combined player total of about 500.

    Guys...lol... fast and the furious was used as a media token point around the time of the sale of SMS and some reports said a 150 million pound title in the works.

    MOTHER fkers! Wow! Can you believe only 10 people were playing it last night when I researched this!? It probably sold about 100 total copies and the game was a total front.

    The fact AMS2 is semi decent in spots and its no easy thing to make a complex game like that is neither here nor there.

    Ok - so it wouldn't matter if he made the biggest praise video ever! I promise you - people would still 'talk' about it and move the dial on the gauge one way or the other - and they would probably pan it even harder.

    He gave it a good run. Look at the guy who said unknowingly badly about 'concerned about the reach'... thats censorship and agenda. You can't just do that. Renato Simioni is on about it just being just one opinion. Thats the thing - how does one shape or place 'just one opinion.'

    He made a video in a way about nothing in particular. I'm not sure how some truly want the world to function - remember humanity's own tyranny. What you or some call 'helping out a game' or 'giving it a leg up' others call cheating the system. Its a product - offered for money. He bought it, played it, and he's busy etc, didn't quite like it totally, and said in the past his experience is lining up with how it was back then.

    Now some want to twist his arm. Need I remind some its a product, bought and sold, and not some destiny. Follow it through and you'll have google and all those company's, apple, twisting your arm for coin.

    No, wait... that generation already allowed that. There's nothing wrong with the video - if wishes were fishes hey

    __

    The guy who said that sorry mate, you don't know how to generate money like those guys do. They needed 30 mil so they did it via stock and release of shares. The game was naff they must have known -others raise money via a product that works etc. Would you believe you can pay a guy money via shares - that money does not exist and the company shareholders are happy (look at any big ceo actually) because it costs no money (i.e their shareholder money) and they do it ALL, ALL, according to a formula.

    So there's no wondering and its transparent. Sound funky they raised the money like that? No. There's corporate law. And thats because they used almost no money for it, because its not really generating money. The 'currency' doesn't exist, and if you look at the studio's titles, you begin to see a picture. Good engine though apparently. And its a typical business-defensive move to grab a potential competitor or get the valuable IP. Whatever it may be they saw, maybe they just wanted another outlet. Then codies was bought. Nice little vertically integrated stack, no?

    Someone has been planning things probably. What adds value - what will generate value, how do you make someone want something, is advertising really bad? How else did you get all your products, etc etc. They got this so down pat. And it could still all go flat, its a long process but the risk is minimized. For a lot of things, but they could be hurtling into a wall, no one knows. This is why the work on a day to day basis is so important like what Reiza does, they can actually change things straight up. So honesty is a good thing.

    If you want the product to be good, fine, but make sure its good and I think they are working hard, I mean it could be worse and no I would not call them incompetent - look at cyberpunk could be worse. I do find some enjoyment with the game.

    How hard is it to accept that Broadbent might feel similar?! lol. Arm twisters. I had to take a firm tact, apologies. Its not like dev work is ending anyway. But you can't hide behind that. Its a better game than a lot of games - even got 900 concurrent once apparently thus proving the point its better than all the ones getting 0-100 for example. But its just a game.

    Except you can't even think that - as a consumer and one with their head screwed on right you have to think of it as a product. You're consuming it. But you also want it to be better - compromised much?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  18. lawgicau

    lawgicau Active Member

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    My 2c:
    I'm a bit sensitive to the YouTuber bashing as I am a full time YouTuber myself (although not the sim racing genre). I often see ridiculous conspiracy theories in comments, but as Renato says, a person on YouTube is just like everyone else. You don't have to sell your soul to record and upload a video. As a channel becomes more popular it doesn't mean they are a 'sell out'. Jimmy has been doing these off the cuff takes in the same style for a long time now. It's why he's popular.

    Yes, unfortunately he drove only a single car and track. From memory he picked the DPI/Daytona combo because the same car and track is available in iRacing. It would have been nice for Jimmy to be more in depth with his testing, however don't forget that many people will likely buy the game, drive a single race and try to make up their mind on that alone before the refund period elapses. Whether you like it or not, a good first impression is important for commercial success.

    Too often people on this forum expect that everyone else playing the game will also be on here and pouring through these threads, release notes, custom ffb files, etc. That's something I don't mind doing but try not to forget that that type of committed player is probably the minority. Most players don't care about a two year plan and just want a polished game for their money. Who can really argue with that? It's not like you pay for some of the game now and the rest later down the track when all the features have been added.

    Personally, I enjoy the driving in AMS2 but I do agree with some of the criticisms. IMO the cars can slide too much, without really suffering a penalty in lap time. Heavy hits with curbs don't provide the 'code brown' moments they often should. Some cars with stock setups have crippling understeer and/or oversteer too. I'm happy to use telemetry and develop a setup but again, hardly anyone will be in this camp.

    These days I've been playing ACC much more because it feels more complete and the multiplayer (my priority) is a lot more developed and populated. I'll keep enthusiastically looking out for AMS2 updates and waiting for this area to get some more attention.
     
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  19. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Free ****ing speech Reiza Backer

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    At least Billy has come round.
     
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  20. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    Well in addition to my comment, I actually agree with billy too, the best cars are the ones which are super stiff. Why else would I drive the rocco at nords with my changes and setup, if not to be blown away. Do you really expect a guy like Broadbent who already has an inkling for the DPI to not try it, etc. Thats what I am on about with consistency and we all know car games are notoriously difficult to dial in, well all I am saying we can't give it a free pass and someone should have mentioned it... the law of product consistency (unless its some kind of surprise product??) does not change just because its a car game.

    I think the camera maybe is to blame a little. A little. More vertical tilt maybe, I do it in cars as well, lift up and tilt down as if I am looking down on an angle - yeah F1's no because they are glued to the ground and I want to be hunkered down. They are flat though most of them I can remember.

    The other thing is... well we already bought the product. What they would be focusing on is the next bunch of people to buy it and what they would need. People may not agree with either video but the truth is, the only people who can tell the next people are the current people. But in terms of my boisterous opinions I would not be necessarily expressing them so much going forward. I already own it and bought it on the precepts of what came and went.

    I am not saying its all about money, no... its not this is me saying its just a measure of quality all things being equal. Consistency is one of those, and I think the game needs to reach audiences yes, but the way to do it is not to tear down or disrespect the man's opinion, while also saying well you know my own/your own opinion may not be the key ticket to improvement because you already own it. Hows that going to help apart from some DLC later on or something - guess what brainiacs...hahah we already bought that too.

    Commercially some things just ooze the moralness of times gone by. There is value in forgiveness, forgetting, accepting, doing things in earnest. These are brought out in the society we live in. So you got to meet people where they are at. This is further brought out by (its all an economy) having business which is flexible, commited, engaged, etc. Now reiza have established some capability with the engine and done some scope with it, this DLC for example and systems, who knows. But you got to be honest with the video's. I know it cuts both ways, but you can't reach into his brain and change the setting where it says "did you like ams2? . er..no..." see. As a product that has no publisher, as such, its got some freedom to change that more. We shouldn't be changing the video.

    But how to bust apart agenda and intellectual dishonesty?? Create a vacuum, a polarity, a debate and in the contrast nut out an understanding and increased awareness. Increase commitment to the sides and break at ideology. You can drive demand. People will forget raceroom was naff 5 years ago, they will forget ACC was naff, etc etc. The laws are the same. If the DPI was bad, and supposing it drove something tangible according to the shape of a plan, and supposing the shape was a line and the lowest ebb was like a drape they could work on the weakest link and lift the line. Criticism is good. And in that light the video begins to make more sense.

    Ideology is an epoch. I mean lol why do you think people watch opinion videos. Democracy is based on this junk, its why market economies work and why we have capitalism.

    But what is instructive in that, its all theory. Well we drill it down into things like identity, means, accessibility and what happens for the positive or negative on each side - its a SPORT...ok... so I was thinking in terms of sporting associations. With team sports this is what we see. Attendance etc, and also take each one of those and those are just a smattering of things, and you can be on its good side or bad side, for or against someone, above it or below it etc.

    Its 3 times as popular as it was and up 40% iirc in terms of desirability to play (coming off a low base). Before the DLC I was like how about pretty lights and 'technically better rain storms like in f12019 at singapore in night. This happened. People were blown away. They came up with content and built the things in the engine or by luck/chance to get that to be sweet. If we look now the game is 3x as popular relative to a period ago. But thats why things get so derivative - add RGB to anything (hello new product), add dark/city/night lights (hello cyberpunk and rage 2) add rain storms to anything (hello skyrim weather mods)...guys, those are just general things and its not drilling down deep enough (I will get to that in a moment if I am to be congruent and true to myself about these things, and I am but one person)

    I can already tell the game is headed in the right direction. I didn't do any of it. I didn't need anyone to tell me that and I knew this several months ago.

    When I compared what I already know about this stuff and to the video. The guy wasn't pulling any punches. Don't you appreciate that. What one would need to resolve is the other things and the product lifecycle.

    Compare the video - he doesn't drill deep, he doesn't go into big detail - thats his audience - the title doesn't resonate with them as much as his video does with them. The game was superfluous to a lot of them in the comments, invisible, it doesn't grab them maybe or whatever it is; he does videos for them all the time, he knows his audience. Look - when you combine different arms of government, you get fascism. Its not cool in a market economy to twist the arm. If I thought something was suss about the video I would see it immediately. The guy holds some same ideas as me - the atmosphere, in a sporting sense the kind a codemasters title does well, is what was lacking round the shell of AMS2. They got that a lot now. Isn't that cool. But not all titles can be a Europa Universalis 4 - a title that people can play for days at a time in one game and buy all kinds of DLC. Its got to be built up and that was the best place to start, it is what it is. In terms of progression they got it right. If you add 40% concurrency its pretty good. That does not negate what the video's say.

    OP only needs more of an enquiring mind, not to ditch either the videos he wants to watch or his purchasing reasons - but what about how up front the video makers in this thread are - I mean they explain it right off the bat.

    But its not pushing content to push content - these are the same games as the ones from years ago. And he is essentially saying correct me if I am wrong, its not up to the standard of what he already owns, according to him. Boo hoo. Thats why the video played out like it did.

    You just want him to package it better for YOU. And I am not about to package the above any better - its your own fault for not understanding it as an adult. I hope u think im a tosser for all this lol no not really - but mate look, july, november, january, then june/now, all key periods. How Broadbent could hold any other opinion is beyond me. The game was troubled/in active development. Thats the negative, and the only positive is that its kept at it.

    If there's essentially 24 usable time zones, just to get a reference, an extra 1000 people may play a day or something, based off that fake reference though the timezone thing is 'near enough' or is it because that number could grow a lot - only looking for the trend. Again, the video is not in er. Good game, getting better, not a world beater. Nor did the company claim anything, it was just all the fanboys. Channels like that were upon a time more cherished because it got through all the corp nonsense about hype etc. Thats why he does such a good common-man argument. From that perspective, he's on your team; and for the critisism he is on theirs. See. Such a lot of useful feedback.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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