Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Coanda, Mar 23, 2021.
v1.0.20 (OP Updated)
- updated Cadillac DPi-V.R ARB Onboard Adjust Ind and Fuel Tank Size
GT1 - FIA GT Championship - Tyre Warming Blankets
This series ran between 1997 to 2009 however the manufacturer GT1's only ran between 1997 and 1998. This will be the two seasons I focus on as it covers the three GT1 vehicles we have in AMS2. After recently watching the 1997 and 1998 race by race season review there was plenty of evidence to suggest these race vehicles did not use tyre warming blankets. Currently in AMS2 they do have this enabled therefore the question is; should they..?
What I noticed in some videos were GT1 category cars sitting on the grid with all four tyres removed with their starting race tyres sitting openly with no tyre warming blankets whilst housed on a tyre rack. If the weather was ordinary you could also see full wets racked alongside the slick tyre option. Going off the videos you would see multiple tyre sets stacked in the pit garage entry and often see mechanics wheeling tyres out to the grid and never once did I see tyre warming blankets. What I also found interesting was at Homestead in 98 the pit lane is 20 or 30 metres off the pit garage therefore the teams had all their tyre sets stacked against the pit wall and on display and I could not see any of the tyre warming blankets during the race.
That all said I still can not say for sure as info is scarce and video footage is not so great however I suspect they didn't . Maybe a GT1 expert can chip in here..
There is not a lot of information out there regarding slick tyre compound options however one or two drivers mentioned about having a qualifying tyre therefore I believe the Soft and Hard option we have in AMS2 seems right. What is difficult to know is if they ever cross mixed tyre compounds.
1998 FIA GT1 Tyre Regulations:-
Going from the regulations the tyres were free.
2012 FIA GT1 Tyre Regulations:
For whatever reason the FIA stopped publishing regulations like they did for 70+ years and from 2002 to 2011 it gets a little vague.. Between 2010 and 2012 the FIA GT1 Championship was formed by SRO. For the 2012 season they phased out GT1 again. The tyre regulations compared to the 1998 version are a lot more involved and as you can see tyre warming blankets are forbidden. Food for thought if we ever get a vehicle from this series.
Group C - FIA World Sportscar Championship - Tyres
This series ran between 1952 to 1993 however the focus mainly is on mid to late 80's and present day classic as these two timelines cover the two iconic Group C vehicles we have in AMS2. In this class there were a range of tyre manufacturers such as Michelin, Dunlop, Avon, Bridgestone, Yokohama and Goodyear. The 1987 FIA Group C tyre regulations highlight once again how free they were and there is almost zero information as to what tyre compounds teams had at their disposal. In AMS2 the Suaber C9 is listed as Michilin tyre and the Porsche 962C is on a Dunlop tyre. The question is are there any performance differences between the two tyre manufacturers or is it purely for visual branding..?
1978 FIA Group C Tyre Regulations:-
Classic Group C (IC) Revival:-
Luckily for us historical Group C (IC) was revived in 2012 and from 2015 Avon became the mandatory and sole tyre supplier. It is said that Avon has closely matched what was available to teams in the 1980's and depending on the year Avon supplies the radial slick A11, A24 and A545 dry tyre whilst supplying the W534 wet tyre compound. All these tyres are from their medium compound range.
In AMS2 version 184.108.40.206 the hard tyre was disabled whilst retaining a soft tyre option.. Question is should Reiza maybe have offered a medium tyre compound instead or in the interim retained the hard tyre over the soft..?
1.0.21 (OP Updated)
- added real life fuel tank size (in parenthesis) for vehicles that have a discrepancy to real life
- updated Formula V10 G2 (Williams FW22) engine, chassis, year information
- corrected Mercedes-Benz CLK LM GT1 engine info as it was listed as the GTR version
- updated Opala Old Stock fuel tank
- A nice pic of the Brazilian P1 Sigma internals.. On updates I will share some beautiful engineering pics I have come across whilst doing this..
The prototype built 90% with gaffer tape and drain tubing.
Is it safe to conclude that the F-Vintage G1M1 is a 1967 Lotus 49, and that the F-Vintage G1M2 is a 1967 Eagle Mk1, so that we can copy all the info from those cars into the spreadsheet, or are there other differences between the fictional vs. the real cars?
1.0.22 (OP Updated)
- replaced # of Tyre Compounds with Tyre Compound abbreviations. ie. S M H W. SL = Slick, even though it is listed as Soft Slick on the vehicle selection Ui it is shown as just Slick on the car setup Ui. A bug has been raised and further clarification has been asked.
- updated Super V8 tyre compound
Here are some nice engineering pics of the Brazilian Stock Cars 2021..
Let me get back to you shortly matey..
1.0.23 (OP Updated)
- updated all generic Formula Vintage G1 data with real manufacturer information from both Lotus and AAR. Thank you very much to @Roar McRipHelmet for making the connection and reaching out!
v1.0.24 (OP updated)
- updated Formula Reiza (Red Bull Racing RB7) from RB6 to 2011 RB7 as it has Pirelli tryres and no shark fin.. More to come on the tyres later tonight..
* this update is for @Marius H
Ultima GTR Race
Formula Reiza (2011 Red Bull Racing RB7) - Tyres
This Reiza Formula One vehicle is clearly designed from the 2011 Red Bull Racing RB7. Contrary to what the Ui says this vehicle in AMS2 has the following tyre options; Soft Slick, Intermediate, Wet, Extreme Wet. Just like the RB7 this vehicle is branded with Pirelli tyres which reentered Formula One in 2011 after Bridgestone left in 2010. In 2011 Pirelli offered 6 tyre compounds with 4 slick tyre options; Red-Super Soft, Yellow-Soft, White-Medium, Silver-Hard, Blue-Intermediate and Orange-Wet tyre. Compounds were not allowed to be mixed as per the regulations which is a functionality I would like to see Reiza incorporate into madness engine for this category and a couple of others too. If changed a quick solution here would be to use something similar to the 2019 Formula Ultimate which offers 5 tyres; Soft Slick, Medium Slick, Hard Slick, Intermediate and Wet tyre as it more closely aligns with reality..
1997 McLaren MP4/12 - Formula V10 G1 - Tyres
Contrary to what the Ui says this vehicle in AMS2 has the following tyre options; Hard Slick, Intermediate, Wet, Extreme Wet. This tyre compound allocation also extends to the unmarked
Formula V10 G1 (Dome F105) and grooved version for the Formula V10 G2 (Williams FW22).
In 1997 both Goodyear and Bridgstone both competed in Formula One and this is what we see marked on the McLaren MP4/12 in AMS2. If my memory serves me right (not always does) and from some research below there are accounts of each tyre manufacturer offering more than one slick tyre option. As these compounds were not marked it is suggested that mixed slick tyre compounds were allowed..
"Before, in time of two tire suppliers (Goodyear - Bridgestone, Bridgestone - Michelin), number of compounds are not limited on four types only. During tire manufacturer "war", compounds are mixed specially for each circuit. And not only one of them. There were always few choices driver can make with help of racing engineer depending of track temperature and track quality."
Formula One Supporters Club: F1 History: 1997 Hungarian Grand Prix - Damon Hill's Almost Win
"When practice got underway at the Hungaroring, Hill concentrated on setting his car up with the softer, racier tyre in the Japanese firm’s armoury. Given the high temperatures at the Budapest venue, it was a slightly risky choice, but the potential reward if the gamble paid off was much higher."
"Frentzen, the man who’d replaced Hill as Villeneuve’s team mate, was desperate for a strong result after a run of sub-par performances, and had smartly opted to run Goodyear’s harder compound tyres. Free from the blistering that had afflicted his rivals, Frentzen continued to circulate on his original rubber. When he set the fastest lap a good number of laps into his stint it seemed that the race was his to lose, and unfortunately for the German, lose it he did."
v1.0.25 (OP Updated)
- updated ARB Onboard Adjust Ind for MCR 2000 P4
Hey @Coanda I just have some questions regarding the Porsche Cayman GT4 CS MR. In game the data for that vehicle are 1390kg, 410HP with 350nm torque.
But, according to the data I have seen on the website from Manthey Racing, the GT4 CS is 1290kg, has 385HP with 420nm torque. With the performance package from Manthey Racing, which makes it to the GT4 CS MR, the car looses 46kg which brings it to 1244kg. The MR package does not change anything on the engine. Also, the tank size with the MR package is 100L.
Check out the pdf file here:
Now, the version in the pdf seems to be the 2016 version. However, looking at the 2019 version the specs are not correct either compared to the AMS2 version. According to Porsche the 2019 Cayman GT4 CS is 1325kg, has 425HP with 425nm torque. And that is without the MR package.
Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport - Technical Specs - Porsche AG
Technical Manual for 2019 Porsche Cayman GT4 CS MR:
Looking at interior pictures from the 2019 version, it doesn't fit either with the AMS2 version:
Do you happen to have any other data about that car? I'm just kind of confused.....
@Micropitt - Hello matey.. Excellent questions and a real nice find on that technical manual!
Firstly the year I have for this vehicle is wrong therefore that has created some confusion with the interiors. It should be listed as the previous version; the one shown in your PDF which aligns with the interior from AMS2. Regarding the weight; that is a difficult one. Renato has mentioned that he applies an additional 80kg to incorporate the driver and then we can not know for sure if the Ui is 100% accurate as I am sure there is some further BoP to apply etc.. Regarding the fuel tank; the 115L info I had comes from the later model which is also the one found in ACC. It's great you found this 2016 PDF as it now suggests there is no change needed..
"100 liter fuel cell (FT3 safety fuel cell) and „Fuel-cut-off“ safety valve in accordance with Fia regulation"
" 115 liters FT3 safety fuel cell with »Fuel Cut Off« safety valve according to FIA regulations (»Competition«)_ 80 liters FT3 safety fuel cell with »Fuel Cut Off« safety valve according to FIA regulations (»Trackday)
This has all the makings of an Automobilista 2 steelbook.
v1.0.26 (OP Updated)
- updated Porsche Cayman GT4 CS MR year and fuel tank
- updated MetalMoro AJR vehicle name
Nice set of shots C.
Pic can be worth a thousand words.
Sure is not some quick mod to a road car, under bonnet shots esp good. very short suspension travel, why not run the exh each side of car? heat in car must be toasty for driver, weight well back from front axle for power unit starting just below wiper spindle/windscreen, Were's the box
lol. fascinating car, pics just make me want to find out more, also can give an idea of how the vehicle should feel to drive. Serious race car
I suggest Reiza hire Coanda to make said steelbook concept in 2023 for a Deluxe edition of AMS2 xD
Thank you for the information. At least now I know what version we have in AMS2.
I did find the Technical Manual for the 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 CS MR:
2016 Porsche GT4 Clubsport MR
Suspension: Currently in AMS2 we have fixed stiff springs for both Front (230 N/mm) and Rear (242 N/mm), no ARB adjustment and fixed 4-way dampers.
The Manthey Racing (MR) technical manual has kindly provided all the Homologation suspension options for this vehicle. This car should have three softer spring packages in the 130-170 N/mm range, 7 adjustment front ARB in the 15-58 N/mm range and 18 step adjustment 2-way dampers. They also list the helper spring too.
Weight: AMS2 has this listed as 1390 KG on the vehicle Ui which somewhat aligns with the listed Porsche GT4 Clubsport weight of 1320 KG on the manufacturer website as AMS2 adds 80 KG for the driver. Manthey Racing have the base CS version listed as minimum 1290 KG and their MR package is said shave an additional 46 KG. Where it gets a little tricky is they are referring to the "Track Day" version which might not be best to compare here..
Manthey-Racing. The specialist for race and road Porsche performance
"The MR Performance package for the club sport racer consists of an extended safety package and lightweight components made of carbon and natural fibre. This leads to a weight reduction of up to 46 kilograms."
Not sure if you are taking it into account but do remember Reiza shows their car weights with an 85kg driver in the seat and all car fluids except for fuel included. Even so, there is a mismatch, yes.
Separate names with a comma.