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Official AI Report Topic

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. sampopel

    sampopel Active Member

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    • Game Version: 1.1.2.0 & 1.1.2.1
    • Car: Opala 86
    • Track: all I've tested (Brasilia, Cascavel, Interlagos)
    • AI Strength setting: 100%
    • AI Aggression setting: 100%
    • Assists: none
    • Corner (if issue is corner specific): All corners
    • Session Distance:
    • Weather: dry
    • Player Tyre: dry
    • AI Tyre (if known to be different from player):
    • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): quick race
    The AI in the Opala 86 seem to be a lot slower than before v1.1.2.0. It's now easy to out-accelerate them coming out of pretty much every corner and they're now putting in much slower lap times (Brasilia was about 1 min 12 secs, now about 1 min 16 secs). I can go from last (20th) to 1st in 2 laps.
     
  2. ControlLogix

    ControlLogix Member

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    • Game Version: 1.1.2.1
    • Car: GT3
    • Track: Silverstone
    • AI Strength setting: 100%
    • AI Aggression setting: 100%
    • Assists: none
    • Corner: Luffield (T7) & Maggots and Becketts (T10,T11,T12)
    • Session Distance:
    • Weather: dry
    • Player Tyre: dry
    • AI Tyre (if known to be different from player):
    • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): quick race
    GT3 AI accelerate abnormally quickly out of Luffield (T7), they are too fast out of the corner. AI is much too slow through Maggots and Becketts (T10,T11,T12), they don't use any curb.

    Racing against them is great on this track except for those two corners. They easily gain a second or so on me through T7 and then I gain a second or two on them through T10,T11,T12.
     
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  3. deadly

    deadly Active Member

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    Spa 1993
    Formula Cars
    When overtaking an AI before Bus Stop, being much faster, suddenly the AI gains this extra-speed-when-human player-is-near, forces it's way through by braking much later than without a human driver near them, finally hangs up in player's tyres, turning the car around. Watched it in replays: When player is near, they drive different, going for the accident in order not to get overtaken by human.
     
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  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    This spot very well may be an issue that needs an adjustment, but I have had similar incidents at other places. I realized that the AI is now more human-like and less willing to concede to the player (or each other, if you notice them battling each other much more realistically now).

    The first rule of the new AI is to assume they will attempt a late-braking move if they have positioned themselves prior to do one. Assume the new AI will not yield if they are side-by-side in a corner.

    On the latter point, what is interesting to me is that the AI will be incredibly courteous to the point they will avoid contact and let you run them right off the track in a corner/side-by-side scenario, if you are doing it methodically. Doubt they will avoid contact if you screw-up and lose control slamming in to them. However, if you are racing legitimately and fairly, they will not yield or give-up unless you, the player, has the clear position advantage.

    What all this means is that the leap of realism in the AI in this last update is so incredible that we need to re-think how we treat AI. My brain was programmed to take advantage of their obvious failings in corners while trying to avoid getting punted by them all over the place. Now, they never hit me if I am racing professionally, but they also never give-up an opportunity. It's like racing with highly competent people!! For reference, I use 85% aggression. I hope and expect they are less assertive at lower levels, but haven't tested to confirm. I think overall, we can safely lower the aggression level a few notches from whatever we had it set to previously as a result of changes in this update.
     
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  5. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I agree that the new raciness is a lot more realistic and thrilling, but I think a couple of excessive AI parameters need to be dialled back if all the concessions have to now be made by the player. I’m all for mindful and defensive driving, but being taken out on a straight by an AI is just frustrating. I sadly remember the glory days on the SMS forum where people were calling the AI “tough but fair”, when it was just plain broken.
     
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  6. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Please list examples of where the AI take out the player on a straight (car and location). In mixed classes, there are still some issues. On single class, I cannot believe that the AI never hit me any more. I am interested in testing the trouble areas, so examples will help.
     
  7. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I’ve been taken out on the Warwick bridge straight at Oulton by an AI who went wide out of druids, drove up the straight with two wheels in the grass (not losing any speed), and thought it best to rejoin the track fully just near the bridge, regardless of me being there. This was in the Omega stocks. I’ve similarly been taken on the Reta Oposta straight at interlagos by AI running wide out of turn 3 and driving up the grass. Can’t remember the car, too busy rage quitting
     
  8. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

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    • Car: F3
    • Track: Curitiba
    • AI Strength setting: 95%
    • AI Aggression setting: 100%
    • Assists: none
    • Corner: Pinheirinho
    • Session Distance: 100
    • Weather: dry
    • Player Tyre: dry
    • AI Tyre NA
    • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Race
    Cars side by side going through corner apex, my front wheel aligned with ai front wheel. Car trajectories under control and hugging the apex due ai on outside. Ai turned in across my car on ideal racing line damaging my car. Race compromised. Can be reproduced.
     
  9. Wedsley Dias

    Wedsley Dias Active Member

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    You were perfect on those points.
    Just two 20min races with the Omega Stock Car @ Curitiba (107/85) to prove it.
     
  10. Wedsley Dias

    Wedsley Dias Active Member

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    • Car: Old Stock Car (Opala 79, Opala 86, Omega Stock Car less noticeable)
    • Track: Curitiba
    • AI Strength setting: 107%
    • AI Aggression setting: 85%
    • Assists: none
    • Corner: (main straight)
    • Session Distance: 30P/10Q/20R
    • Weather: dry
    • Player Tyre: dry
    • AI Tyre: -
    • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): P/Q/R
    For a fraction of a second, the cars slow down on the main straight (near the finish line). This is more noticeable in the Old Stock Race where they even use the brake (brake lights on).
     
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  11. Fernando

    Fernando Active Member

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    Hi Marc,

    I love an AI which defends and take every opportunity the player give to it, but currently there are some issues with the AI which combined make a race against it a rage quit scenario lot of the times.

    It seems like Reiza is tweaking some parameters to allow the AI race a lot more like humans on that regard, but if you combine it now with the other not properly tuned factors, it makes almost every AI race an unfair affair.

    For example:

    - AI is unrealistically faster on some sectors, on every track, and a lot slower on other sectors at the same track. It makes difficult to tune the AI level for a race weekend.

    - AI can drive the proper racing, inside and outside lines at the same speed. This makes battling with the AI unfair, because you allow them to take the outside, non rubbered line, and they just past you on the outside as if nothing happened there, even by lowering two wheels on the grass.

    - AI engages "rage mode" (ie: unrealistically faster than usual pace) when near the back of the player, trying to overtake at impossible places and on impossible racing lines, even by the grass. If you combine this with my earlier point, you can't race the AI in a fair manner. When the AI overtake the player, its race pace is normalized. This has the effect that you as a player is racing the AI in front, and as this AI doesn't have the rage effect activated, you approach it to overtake, and at the same time the rage mode activated AI behind you gains ground to you on the same sectors the AI in front loose it. Both AI can post the same lap times, so it's not a matter of different AI skills.

    - Ai seems not to be affected by fuel load, nor changing grip levels when track temp changes mid race. AI post the same lap times as on qualy from the start to the end of the race. This is something I found recently in a 12 laps Q/R event at Spa 93, so I have to investigate further on this, but a preliminar test at Kansai with GT3 cars would confirm that initially.

    - AI fights in groups of cars, going side by side through almost all the lap, all the race, by taking unreal race lines, grass, and unreal speed trhough those weird lines. Seeing AI going side by side, followed by other two side by side AI cars 0.2 secs appart, at the Nords, during the entire lap, is very weird and unrealistic. It happens on every track I tried recently (Nords, Kyalami, Kansai, Spa, Spa 93, VIR) and with different car classes too.

    I had a lot more fun and fair races before the latest two updates, even with some of the flaws I mentioned still present back then. I found myself rage quitting a lot recently.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to the AI tuning Reiza is developing, and I hope some parameters can be tuned to avoid the problems Ai currently have (at least for my taste), without dumbing down the "more human like" behaviour it has right now.

    Cheers.
     
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  12. Alwin Papegaaij

    Alwin Papegaaij Active Member

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    I guess that the AI callibration pass wasn't done on this combo? Same behaviour is still there.
    The car for the player seems quite a lot quicker though, and the handling has made a huge step up!
    Seems to me that the AI is too slow now with this combo as I was able to be more than 1.5 seconds faster than the AI on 97 difficulty (1:43.2 vs 1:45.9). Normally this is about my skill level.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  13. Andrex

    Andrex New Member

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    In training and qualifine I am by 95% AI strenght mostly 2-3 sec faster than AI, but in race it is hard to keep up with the AI.
    Also, dosen't matter if I change aggresivitiy to 0, 20 or 100% in race there is no difference
     
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  14. Coanda

    Coanda ohhh whinge whinge f@#ken whinge.. Reiza Backer

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    Version: 1.1.2.3
    Car / Track: Super V8
    AI Strength: 100%
    Track Position: Conrod Straight
    AI Aggression: 70%
    Session Distance: P1
    Weather: Dry A22 TT32
    Player Tyre: Soft Slick
    AI Tyre: Slick
    Session Type: P1
    Notes: Just like the GT1's the Ai are 15-20 kph too slow down Conrod as I can easily go 295 kph. Sometimes they also take a shallow line through the right hand kink before the Chase chicane and they are lifting off throttle too. This kink can be taken full throttle.

     
  15. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Hmmm, AI should be fastest in Q. They used to be, so maybe a variable got inadvertently reset somewhere?
     
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  16. deadly

    deadly Active Member

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    Yes, experienced the same thing. Setup a race weekend on Imola 01, was ~2 seconds faster in this car class in practice and decided to skip qualifying and start last. In race, it was hard to compete, could overtake some cars at the beginning, but then, AI near me was extremely aggressive (no matter which aggressivity I had chosen), was at my back on most of the corners, giving me a slight push when I was about to steer in, what made driving really unpleasant.
    They always got some extra speed out of corners, although they missed the line completely or went over the grass. In one case, AI was at my back at Tosa, tried to overtake on the outside, failed and left track with all four wheels, almost crashed into the wall. But miraculously, it just went on racing on the grass without losing any speed, came back to track without struggeling and was on my back again. No fun at all to race this AI when they have physics that allow them to be fast on any line/surface.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  17. Fernando

    Fernando Active Member

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    I can confirm something similar happened to me on a Group C race at Spa 93

    AI strenght at 100%, aggression 20 %. In the Race AI lap times were 1 sec faster than in Qualy, and the agression were like if the slider was at 500%.
     
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  18. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Nothing kills enjoyment of offline racing quicker than the perception of unfair AI. I personally judge it by my rage quitting frequency, which is at an all time high now. I truly hope the devs fix this current insane grass behaviour, at present it’s essentially giving the AI an extra couple of car widths of track to play with that aren’t available to the player.
     
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  19. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing. Verify everything. Have Fun Reiza Backer

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    Main Build.
    Tracks Interlagos Historic (long) Kayalami historic, Spa 93
    Cars: Retros, Group C,
    Conditions Race from back of grid. Rain and fog all session 10 laps (no p or q & likely to make no difference)
    AI 25 at 100/100 If Maximum ai are selected then issue is worse as expected
    10-15 AI gives a race for most starts
    Reports.
    AI have massive issue with Interlagos T1 T3 Pileups
    Kaya T1 T6 Pile ups Out of 5 race starts 99% of time.
    Though I like the fact the ai make errors and its not that dissimilar to Human It maybe a tweek or 2 to improve so less restarts are req to have a race. Pace wise fast at 100/100, esp corner entry exit, wish I had same grip:)

    Car Sigma Rain full session Spa AI in Q are slow at 110/100 and can be out Q'ed easily. 115/100 better.
    but at 100/100 they seem slow compared to other tested class's mentioned
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  20. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Well-Known Member

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    Had a race at the 20km version of the nordschleife last night, I don't know it that well so dropped the AI to 70 and they were way too aggressive and would crash and pile up around the pit lane and take crazy lines to overtake.
     

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