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Official AI Report Topic

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Active Member

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    Car: Porsche Cayman GT4
    Track: Hockenheim (full course)
    AI Strength setting: 105
    AI Aggression setting: Medium
    Session Distance: 15 laps
    Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
    Session: Race

    During this race, I've come into contact with the AI about 3 to 4 times at T2. This is because they seem to move under braking quite frequently when entering this corner. This doesn't happen anywhere else around the track. I would even say the AI is great at Hockenheim, with the exception of this corner.

    (If I figure out how, I can add a short video of this, if requested).
     
  2. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Active Member

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    Car: Cadillac DPi
    Track: Silverstone (GP course)
    AI Strength setting: 105
    AI Aggression setting: Medium
    Session Distance: 15 laps
    The weather when the issue was observed: Dry
    Session: Race

    So... This combination isn't great. It kind of sucks tbh. I feel the AI is tuned very poorly to this car track combination.

    First of all, AI is way too aggressive. It dives into any gap it sees and has a tendency to go side by side pretty much anywhere, including the maggots section, which is very much a single file.

    Secondly, I know the AI is on a different physics set than the player. I get it and see why it was done. With this combination though, the difference between the two physics sets is quite large. All contact with the AI results in a spin for the player. The AI seems to be on rails, which combined with their optimistic attempts for an overtake, results in a nonideal experience for the player. Furthermore, they seem to not know the size of the car, as try to pull in behind the player, but hit the rear end of the player's car instead.

    Finally, the lines taken by the AI are simply strange. In most corners and braking zones, the player is vastly superior to the AI. I tried this car for the first time and I could immediately go around the outside on most of the slow corners and out brake the AI effectively everywhere. I did not do any setup work. This difference in grip is then nullified by the insane traction and acceleration the AI seems to have.

    I'm going, to be honest here and admit that I stopped trying after 20+ restarts, after effectively rage-quitting.

    I took some videos with my phone of some examples and will try to upload them here if I can.

    Edit for the videos.:
    So the first example was the most annoying for me. The AI (pov) simply cuts the corner and taps me into a spin. This happened several times, but this is the best (or worst depending on your perspective) example.



    In this second example, the AI seems to misjudge the size of the car. After an overtake in T3 in tries to slot in behind me but spins me around instead. What is noteworthy though, is the lack of actual contact between the two cars.

    AI pov:


    My pov: (The lack of actual contact can be seen here)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  3. FS7

    FS7 controller filters off please Reiza Backer

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    Another example of how bad and unaware of other cars the AI is in AMS2, I move my car all the way to the inside and the AI side swipes me off the track:



    Stock Car 2019, 27 opponents, AI at 100/low. I see this type of bs all the time, anybody with eyes and a brain should be able to see me and avoid contact in that situation. I really hope at some point Reiza will include an option to make AI avoid contact with my car at all costs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
  4. deadly

    deadly Well-Known Member

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    AI in AMS 2 unfortunately thinks that car coming from the outside has right of way.
     
  5. Fabian Biehne

    Fabian Biehne Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I know the AI has flaws but your move might as well have ended this way with humans too.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. Mazdaspeed

    Mazdaspeed Active Member

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    Have to disagree, you should have yielded the corner, there was no real way you could have taken the corner from that angle with a car slighty in front on the outside.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  7. sgsfabiano

    sgsfabiano Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Are you guys serious? The prati car definitely should leave 1 car length on the left, especially when it clearly has the whole rest of the track to the right.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Mhad

    Mhad Active Member

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    I agree. I think your issue is that you gave him too much room. I've found the AI tend to know you're there more easily the closer you are. So if you were right up by his door from the exit of the corner he moves away a bit and gives you room.

    Not saying what we have now is perfect, but my findings say "getting closer to the AI makes them better".
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    That's just a completely horrible "move" from you and you would have been shouted at for trying to pull it off in any random online lobby.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. sampopel

    sampopel Active Member

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    I find the AI are generally very good at avoiding you now, at least in the range of cars (various tin-tops) that I spend most time in. It had been a big problem about 12-18 months ago but it's be gradually fine-tuned to a point where nearly every race I have with them, I can race side by side against them, corner after corner, lap after lap, race after race and not have any issues.

    The recent work on their ability to overtake each other is also really coming along nicely, so they're far better overall than they were a year ago. Add the custom AI files into the mix and I've now had many enjoyable races with them.

    There are still occasions where their sudden twitches to the side can result in contact but the main problem I have with that, such as the example video above, is that the contact invariably results in the player's car being sent flying off track (which might be realistic) but the AI car is essentially unaffected. And with damage on max, the player will often pick up race ending damage whilst the AI speeds off as if nothing happened. If the need to have such simplified physics acting upon the AI cars means they are virtually immovable objects, then I'd like an option that makes the player's car less likely to be sent spinning after contact from AI. At the moment, I have one of my buttons set to "Stability control" so when driving more vulnerable cars, I can quickly turn it on when amongst a pack of untrustworthy AI cars, and turn it off again when clear of them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Mazdaspeed

    Mazdaspeed Active Member

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    Yep, there is definetly a code in the ai that makes them avoid the player car when side by side, so you can pretty much push them around anywhere. I think the AI cars being tanks was an issue in PC1&2, so yeah, thats something that can be improved, especially in tin tops.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Ramos11

    Ramos11 New Member

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    Car: Cadillac DPi, GTE's
    Track: Interlagos
    AI Strength setting: 107
    AI Aggression setting: Max
    Session Length: 24 minutes
    The weather when the issue was observed: Dry
    Session: Race

    AI on faster cars have a lot of difficulty lapping/overtaking slower cars. I was 3rd fighting the 2 race leaders. When we caught up to the GTEs, I gained an enormous and unfair advantage.
     
  13. deadly

    deadly Well-Known Member

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    Please Reiza, reduce the grip level of AI cars in a noticeable way.

    Right now, they can rush out of slow corners even with high powered turbo cars like F_Classic Gen 1 like on rails, although the almost stand still on the apex. They never have problems with traction.
    With their high grip level, they can also cut corners and drive on the grass with slicks like they would go on tarmac.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. STV_Robin

    STV_Robin New Member

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    I don’t know if this contributes anything that hasn’t been mentioned multiple times. So I did a couple of rain to dry races with Formula Ultimate Gen 2 recently and had some very different experiences in 2 races.

    The first one at modern Imola: On a wet track, with everyone on wet tires everything was about fine. The AI was of course not being as much affected by the wet track as the player but that’s a known issue already. Oh, and the AI only switches from full wet to dry, they always skip the Inters for me. However, when the track dried it was an absolutely weird experience: All, including myself went back to dries at some point as there was a dry line pretty much everywhere apart from the exit at the tamburello chicane, where massive puddles were on the racing line (that probably is a different issue). However, there was an almost dry line around those puddles which I used. The AI still went full on through the puddle losing about a second on me in that corner alone. They easily regained that time at the rest of the track though as I struggled with some damp parts that didn’t affect them at all.

    The second one at Azure/Monaco was certainly a much better experience but I had issues very different to those at Imola: On a wet track, I had more grip and was way faster than the AI on wets (probably gained around 2s from Sainte Devote to Nouvelle Chicane). At the last sector tho, there was a little less water somehow and a dry line early on in the race where the AI almost regained these 2s in just a few corners. On a drying track (that dried in a much more believable way compared to Imola as well) I had a pretty decent race as I was pretty level with the AI.

    And then there’s a third thing: The difference in AI performance. I always test which AI strength I need to choose to have a somewhat believable race. But never was the gap so big for me as between these two: In Imola I had to go with 97 strength in these circumstances to fight at the lower midfield. For Monaco however I was able to choose 117. That’s a difference of 20(!) points in the same car class. I may suck at Imola but I don’t think I suck so hard that it justifies this 20 points gap. In both races I used maximum AI agression. That works very well for me.
     
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  15. Troodon

    Troodon Active Member

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    Car: Group A
    Track: Nürburging GP
    AI Aggression setting: Max
    Custom championship race weekend. Qualified P11 in dry weather at AI skill 100.
    Had to drop to skill 78 for the 20-minute race in wet weather to finish P14.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Mazdaspeed

    Mazdaspeed Active Member

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    I love the weather system in the game, but yeah they still need some touches to match GP4, which in my opinion has the best wet to dry and dry to wet races in any game. From the way that different parts of the track get wet or dry, to how the AI actually makes more mistakes when wet, the immersion level is just unmachted to this day.

    AMS2 has all the tools to be even better, the game has an excellent weather system, just needs some touches on the transitions and visuals, like if its raining in one part of the track only, the rain should disappear visually. I think thats one of the issues people might have with the weather system, the visuals dont match the actual physical status of the track, so you are confused as to how wet the track really is and the "moist,damp etc" message dont help that much when you have to pause to see it. And obviously the AI is very inconsistent in their speed depending on the track and car, but it must be a gargantuan effort to calibrate all the cars, tracks, tires etc. of the game for the different weather, so I am sure that will take more time to get to a GP4 level.

    I am still hopefull that Reiza can fulfill the full potential of the game, because the engine is very good and they are excellent developers
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. deadly

    deadly Well-Known Member

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    F_USA:
    AI cars which are about to be lapped on oval tracks fight you like crazy instead of letting player pass, rather causing collisions with leading car than stepping back. Blue flags are only there for human players, AI can do whatever they want.
     
  18. JavierZumaeta

    JavierZumaeta Member

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    Car: FUSA gen 2
    Track: Indianapolis Oval
    AI Strength setting: 110
    AI Aggression setting: Low
    Session Distance: 70 laps
    Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
    Session: Single Race

    Overall a super fun experience, did a 70 lap race, and the FCY + fairly good AI was wonderful - super competitive. But these are my notes.

    Generally speaking, turn 1, 3 and 4 are the trouble areas. In turn 1, the AI dives in way too deeply, then they have to slow down to manage their slide mid corner. End effect is that they end up not losing any time. Turn 3 is a similar event to a lesser degree. Turn 4 though, they lose a lot of time. Their just slow through the whole turn, and if you give them a lot of space at turn in, you can really take advantage by carrying a more speed down the main straight. Turn 2 is okay.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2022
  19. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Track: Oulton International
    Car: Any
    Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
    Session: Single Race

    AI remains hugely overpowered relative to the player on this track. I can race comfortably against a given class at 95-100% difficultly, but need to turn it down to 80-85% to stand a chance against the same class at Oulton. They are simply quicker than the player over the entire course, save for a couple of hairpins where you might dive up the inside. Oulton used to have some of the best behaved AI of any AMS2 tracks, but over the last few releases it's gone to the dogs.

    PS They still totally ignore the bollards too.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. deadly

    deadly Well-Known Member

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    F_USA at Indianapolis Oval: Absolutely senseless to race.

    Lapping backmarkers is a real pain. They block the track by going side by side, not willing to let leading cars pass but ram you out of the race. And while the backmarkers to anything to block and ram, you get attacked from behind like crazy from this blind AI. Would be time now to have flag rules and penalties for the AI.

    Next thing: They have a poor entry into turn 1 and 3, but of course can rocket out of those corners because of the magic physics, though.
    They are also completely blind for players car, just moving over all the time in order to ram.

    Dirty air has no effect on AI, just on player.

    Have tried to have a race there now for many times with the F-USA, but when it comes to lapping other cars, my race is over quite soon, because the AI rams me into the wall or on the grass.

    Shame on you Reiza to release crap like that.
    Either there was no testing at all or you decided to release broken stuff like that in order to make fun of the customers.

    Completely broken, no fun to drive a race there because of this idiotic AI.:(

    The AI needs a complete overhaul, not just tinkering a liitle bit. Issues were reported here thousand times, but Reiza just does not react at all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2022
    • Disagree Disagree x 2

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