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Official AI Report Topic

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    • Game Version: 1.1.2.3
    • Car: GT1 AMG
    • Track: Imola (Modern verson)
    • AI Strength setting: various (see below)
    • AI Aggression setting: various
    • Assists: none
    • Session Distance: 10 laps
    • Weather: dry
    • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): race
    The AI were waaaaay over aggressive for this type of car. I tried 12 different times (with varying levels of AI strength/aggression) to do a 10 lap race at this track. Never made it past lap 4 on any attempt due to being wrecked by the AI. They would dump me at the chicane, hook me on the straightaways, pass and then do a hard brake check and so forth. I like the AI to be more "fun" than real life, but this NASCAR to the 4th power stuff in GT1 was kind of over the top. :)

    The same thing did not happen when I did a follow-up race with GT3 cars.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  2. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    • Game Version: 1.1.2.3
    • Car: F309
    • Track: Imola (Modern verson)
    • AI Strength setting: 90
    • AI Aggression setting: 70
    • Assists: none
    • Session Distance: 10 laps
    • Weather: dry
    • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): race

    Did a 5 lap race and there were 6 different AI crashes--crash being defined as contact between cars that causes one of them to go flying through the air. Took me several tries to get past the first 3 turns without getting caught up in AI multi-car pileups.
     
  3. deadly

    deadly Active Member

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    After watching the AI on the monitor at Kyalami Classic with F_Classic Gen2, I saw that they just can brake extremely late without any problem, no smoke, no locking wheels. That is when they almost or sometimes actually ram player. Then, almost on the appex, they brake really hard into the two slow corners, almost stand still, shifting down to first gear. Here, they are blocking the human player who is already accelerating on this spot and has to slow down again in order to avoid an accident. Although they come out from this corners from really low speed, they can accelerate like rockets.
     
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  4. Jeff Scharpf

    Jeff Scharpf Active Member

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    In general I would say that the AI are more aggressive with the player and each other, with the latest update. I'm not necessarily considering this a problem, as I have been running at 100% aggression and haven't yet turned it down to see how that affects things. As my mom used to say "be careful what you wish for". I would hate to have Reiza over-correct such that they all pull over for me lol.. well you know what I mean. Overall they are the BEST AI for a full length race of any of the major sims. Of course this is only my opinion based on my style.
     
  5. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    I largely agree--I'm not looking for the level of excitement that we had in real-world F1 races last year in my AI racing. :) Overall really like the AI in AMS2. Although I think Raceroom probably has the best overall AI execution sim-wide.
     
  6. Fernando

    Fernando Active Member

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    I largely agree with you, I don't want a train like AI. IMO the problem is not the aggression per se, it's the sum of other problems which if you add aggression on top, builds up an unfairness feeling to the player, ruining the experience, and an AI which is a lot prone to crash the player without having any consequence for them.

    I mean, right now the AI can race at full speed on several racing lines, even on grass, they can brake in shorter distance than the player, can accelerate like a rocket out of corners, it doesn't suffer loss of grip outside the ideal racing line, and a couple more problems described in this same thread.

    When you add aggression on top of these, there are a lot of combos which became unraceable on the latest updates.

    I think when those problems will be solved, the aggression level will be OK without having to dumb it down. Right now we are blaming the aggression, but to me it's a sum of other things which make the AI extremely aggressive at the end.
     
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  7. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I'm all for assertive and challenging AI, but not if the laws of physics don't apply to them. I don't care if I don't do well in an offline race if I thought I was fairly challenged by the track, weather and AI. I care a lot if I can't be competitive against AI who pass me on the grass (without penalty), pass me on the outside of high speed turns, outbrake me into corners, out accelerate me out of them, and who never come off second best in the collisions they inevitably cause. In this sense the AI have regressed significantly IMHO, because these are largely the same complaints that were bandied around mid last year. At that time, the AI was in the midst of significant overhaul, so I'm trying to stay optimistic that the current unfair behaviour is for the same reason.
     
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  8. sgsfabiano

    sgsfabiano Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I agree with everyone, AI physics (or lack of) is irritating and make it racing offline not enjoyable at all.

    If we take the human player off the equation, the AI racing each other is very good. But once the player tries to mimic their lines, it is very clear the AI is not constrained to grip levels or any sort of physics close to the player, which makes them take corners in a very unrealistic and unmatchable way, so you struggle to take a turn while 3 or 4 AI drivers fly past you with their infinite grip and downforce.
     
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  9. bandqit

    bandqit Active Member

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    Based on my experience last night, I must agree here. Was at Silverstone ‘01 in the V10 Gen 2, and while I was a second or two quicker in practice/quali, the race itself was very frustrating as I’d struggle to overtake in some spots, then in the some corners they’d just fly past again while I struggled with the actual physics of the car. Gave up eventually.
     
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  10. Jeff Scharpf

    Jeff Scharpf Active Member

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    I guess I will wait for the next update and see if it gets fixed. I was only trying to think of solutions for myself because the AI did suddenly get very difficult to race against. I had them at 90/100 just before the update and was enjoying the GT3 championship. I could keep up in the top 10.. even had the lead for a while in one race.. so I felt they were competitive. Then recently I started the next race in the championship and could not even catch the last car, and they were more aggressive and hard to pass. My post was just something I thought I would try (turning down the aggression).. but it seems from the responses that there are bigger issues here. Oh well. I will play around with AC for now I guess. Their custom championship is also fine for me, but I was hoping to stay 100% AMS2. I did have a fun online race with AMS2 just last night so I can do that.. but I never feel like online races give me anything because the race comes and goes and I don't feel like there is a purpose (points, standings, etc.)
     
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  11. Jeff Scharpf

    Jeff Scharpf Active Member

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    One more thing about the AI recently. They seem to be more of a "rail" now.. in past versions, there were fast AI, medium AI, and slow AI.. sort of all mixed up.. it felt more realistic. Now it seems that we are back to the straight follow the leader type of thing where not one of them drops back.
     
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  12. Andrex

    Andrex New Member

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    If the AI is behind me, they are very aggressive and try to overtake me in a 10 cm left space, rumble then over gras and knock me out or kick my back.
    If AI is in front of me, they break me in the corner out and drive then out of the corner like a rocket.
    I guess in race is the AI aggression always at full % (over 100%), doesn't, matter what I choose in the Options
     
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  13. alink

    alink Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if ever mentioned, but is the AI affected by the amount of fuel carried?
    I did a race with GroupC at Montreal 1988, 30min race.
    I started with 80 litres fuel and had a hard to drive car, my laptimes were about 1.5 / 2 seconds slower. However, the AI raced laptimes as in Qualifiying nearly.
    After the race, I did TT with the same car, track and setup. The car was, with empty fuel tank, really good to drive, I just set new personal best laps. So my bad performance in race was not because of a bad setup.
     
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  14. Alwin Papegaaij

    Alwin Papegaaij Active Member

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    • Game Version: 1.1.2.3
    • Car: Sprint race
    • Track: Ibarra
    • AI Strength setting: 98
    • AI Aggression setting: 80
    • Assists: none
    • Session: 40 min practice, 10 min Qualify, 10 lap race
    • Weather: dry
    • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Qualify and race
    Qualify: All 29 AI qualify within 0.53sec. I like close racing, but this is a bit too close..
    Race: The AI is actually faster during the race than in qualify.
    I see this more often, I'm quite easily able to qualify at the front and then I can't keep up during the race because they are just quicker than in Q.
     
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  15. Fernando

    Fernando Active Member

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    Yes, I mentioned this in an earlier post. My experience was the same as yours on a Group C race at Spa 93.

    Watching at the replay of that race, I noticed the AI lap times were all the same for the whole race, so not affected by fuel nor tyre degradation it seems.

    It's like the AI is in Time Trial mode all the time on a race.
     
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  16. alink

    alink Well-Known Member

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    Right, in TT I set similar times as the AI in the race (a bit faster but AI was set at about 95% or 98%). So, the basic speed itself fits but not regarding to carried fuel and tire wear.
    There is a new hotfix but in changelog I can't read that something was changed
    I am not sure, is it only a GroupC issue or with all carsets?
     
  17. sgsfabiano

    sgsfabiano Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Exactly, the AI lap times are overly consistent, so it feels like you are racing vs top pro sim racers.

    Only making AI lap times go up and down as you adjust the AI strength is not enough. As AI strengths go down, the percentage of mistakes and lap time variation from one lap to another for the same AI should vary too. This is more representative of human behaviour than just having AI at 60% strength but every single lap of a 40 laps race it does 1:20.3 to 1.20.5 for example.
     
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  18. alink

    alink Well-Known Member

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    What I meant is that the AI is not influenced by fuel and / or tyre wear. They start a race with laptimes as with empty fuel in Qualifying while I am about 2 sec slower. Which AI strength is used, 50%, 100% or 150%, doesn't matter. But because at race start the car is heavier than after several laps, it is not realistic, that the AI can drive each lap same laptimes.
     
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  19. sgsfabiano

    sgsfabiano Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Yep, I wasn't addressing your post though.

    The following is also not addressing your report, but my experience with the AI so far.

    What I described is the behaviour AI has since beta day 0 as far as I can remember. They are extremely consistent with their lap times.

    Unlike AMS1, the AMS2 AI seem to not have a "talent file" which was used to control the AI skill and behaviour. I recall that the AI had no names on the very first days of the beta, but were labeled something like "Aggressive", "Bumpy", "Fast", etc. These give an idea that there is some sort of hardcoded control over AI behaviour, but when racing them it seems like every single one has the same "talent", some sort of hive-minded behaviour: all of them act the same way.

    This could be also influencing the lack of "personality" of the AI drivers. For example, we have a limited number of named AI drivers, but I can't identify who is the usually fast and who is the usually slow. So I have the impression that the AI names are just randomed over AI pre-built settings (which in itself seem like all are about the same settings). I can't point an AI who is usually on the top of the charts, or one who is usually at the bottom.
     
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  20. deadly

    deadly Active Member

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    Behaviour still there after latest update: AI can drive crazy lines without losing speed or grip, even on grass.
     

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