Physic discussion thread

Hey guys,
please tell me if I'm doing something wrong with the settings because on my computer many cars in AMS2 have way too much grip coming out of the slow corners. I've read people complaining that there is not enough grip at times so it must be something on my end, but I don't know what.

Let's focus on M1 Procar for now (but I have the same problem with many other cars as well).
It seems to me the tires are way to grippy out of the slow corners, or from standing still. I can drive like an idiot treating the throttle as an on/off switch, no finesse required. I don't have to bother feathering the throttle at all, just press pedal to the metal and off I go. All nannies are off, but I must be missing something here.
I even tried flooring it from the stand still, having the wheel turned all the way and after short initial traction break the tires just grip and car goes straight.

Please help, what am I doing wrong?

 

re test. Not Diff

Your software.
Imagine the clutch plate centre springs (cush drive) are made if very pliable and soft material and there was a lot of it. Instead of short strong springs.

When for instance you lift off throttle on a straight there is very little delay/Time for engine braking to be felt with the springs as normal
With the mushy squashy replacement the time over distance travelled will be extended for forces to be felt.
Q Will the software show this (sounds and looks like it would from what I seen of your sheets.)Though its not what your looking for of course!

 

Yes I figured that it's suspension stuff related to unloading. It just feels weirdly sharp to me compared to the Formula Trainer where the feeling of load goes away smoothly.

Should be the non-vee.

 

x

 

I have no experience with the stock cars, as I'm more a open wheeler enthusiast, you know.. but YOUR experience with it is very interesting, indeed! Especially under the lights of this topic, here: because It basically confirms my concernes about the generic handling problem AMS2 still has: the unpredictable sudden loss of car control due to a too unbalanced rear end and the exaggerated suspension simulation of the respective car you drive! Those need to be sorted out, I think, in order to get a balanced and real satisfying driving experience! Thank you so much for your comment!

 

Perhaps adjust the brake bias toward the back...

 

I will consider that for the next time I'll return to drive! Thank you for your comment!

 

Speculation on my part
In the vid (cockpit) fronts are hard to spot as locking in your lockup (not t1) 4.30mins ,-rr?
rr cause of spin perhaps?
May try the same as a test
Some nice vids u do I have seen before esp with commentary

 

Hmm ok. I need to try it again, but I'm pretty sure grip felt odd unloading. Like it would go directly to 0% grip from the last 5% of grip. But it may be an FFB bug as well which is not a matter for this thread.

And yes I know that it's not a great comparison otherwise . I mentioned the Trainer, because both go about the same speed (same ballpark) on the back straight and unload front tires on crests. Only the Vee has this odd feeling near the end of grip.

I'll test it again some time.

 

Do you mean if telemetry could show a delay between revs dropping to rear tire speeds dropping? And not as much with another clutch?

 

I maybe be misremembering what the car does exactly in that state, but did it feel disconnected?

 

Hi Ralonso, I just tried the car and conditions/ setup and yes default 1-2 laps rr end is sensitive
Though, no front lockup in default, adjusted + 10 to frnt bias and lockups easy and visable.
Reset again to default then added +10 to rr wing Made a lot of difference .
No lockups fr/rr much more grip rr, and no step out. Probably not pushing as hard as you ! but I think as the Devs tweek the default setup things will get better for cars out the box. So in answer to OP
Just my thoughts of course
The Handling model in some cars is very close to very good or more.
Others will need a little setup ie wing/,brake bias, damper for bumpy track etc.
Product is wip so not bad overall but very dependant on car choice/track and how good the default setup is for first impression.
This will improve as we all know and look forward to.
Edit Maybe the vid title should be Pros and cons of the default setup..

 

After all those pages as Crimson suggested I performed the 'final' test.

Take one of most demanding track for tires/diff dynamics (any kart circuit you may like) and use the same car in AMS1 and AMS2.

BoxerCup vs 911 Cup 3.8
CamaroSS vs CamaroSS (not the same car but quite similar... AMS2 version should be in theory much better)
fTrainer Basic Vs fTrainer basic

Please do the same and tell me your impressions...

 

sry mis link
↑
re test. Not Diff

Your software.
Imagine the clutch plate centre springs (cush drive) are made if very pliable and soft material and there was a lot of it. Instead of short strong springs.

When for instance you lift off throttle on a straight there is very little delay/Time for engine braking to be felt with the springs as normal
With the mushy squashy replacement the time over distance travelled will be extended for forces to be felt.
Q Will the software show this (sounds and looks like it would from what I seen of your sheets.)Though its not what your looking for of course!
Click to expand...
@oez Asked Do you mean if telemetry could show a delay between revs dropping to rear tire speeds dropping? And not as much with another clutch?


yes. but revs dropping also is delayed (not as abrupt as rl or comparisons made same car ams1 rf2 rl)
bt44 is very noticeable and also has change of tone /burble if given time, and this change coincides with more engine braking but its well after you lift off.
Hence going deeper into corner before more/easier turn in is felt.
I mentioned it since bt came out.
I Just masked/compensated for it by changing driving style throttle /brake in meantime
Its like the cush drive is massive rubber thing with too much compliance causing "lag" in forces effect , May effect snappiness of diff when "rubber compliance reaches maximum and reacts as solid or normal cush springs
I resigned myself to make a vid to show my point, yet to do.
Thanks for asking
EDIT its not the same as diff issue but ovbs will have an effect coupled with it.
BT 44 has too fast an idle this also is detrimental to lift off effect

 

Just watched the first 5 minutes of the video and I can already see what your problem is. You don't understand physics.

You are locking up at the end of every braking point. You need to modulate the brake pedal according to speed in a high downforce car. The slower you are going the less downforce, which means there is less friction between the tires and the ground, which means they lock up easier. When you're braking from high speed, start with maximum braking, but you have to release some brake as you get slower, or you will lock up.

Watch real f1 drivers, they lock up sometimes if they don't get the brake pedal exactly right. It doesn't stay the same throughout braking, you have to release slightly. To figure out the optimal braking, both at the beginning of braking and at the end, and the rate of change in between takes practice.

As for the back end stepping out, through different corners you will have a maximum speed you can take depending on radius, how much downforce you have at every point in the turn etc. You will find a throttle position somewhere in between 0 and 100% that will give you maximum speed right at the edge of traction. Go a bit over and you will spin, go a bit under and you are too slow. It is not supposed to be easy in a 1000HP rwd car with no traction control/ABS.

This is the nature of an F1 car. It takes a long time to learn to squeeze the maximum performance from them. The simulation feels very realistic and challenging to me. The pedals are not on/off switches, stop using them like that, learn to modulate, learn to understand how a high downforce car behaves at different speeds and how this affects the physics of the tires interacting with the surface of the track. What I saw in the video is not a handling issue with the game, it's a driver issue. With these cars the most important thing is precise control of your feet for brake and throttle, and knowing how to change the % application throughout a brake zone and corner and exiting. They are not on/off switches.

 

Another simple test you may wish to try. (or not)
Pick your favorite track
Suspect car
Do some laps but do not use brake.
Strange at first but a good exercise anyway. Your lap time will increase as you get use to only engine brake and how effective it is/or not and diff response.
This can also give a lot of feedback on how engine brake and diff react by removing the foot brake forces
ie in bt 44 seems less engine brake effect at high revs than lower. This feels wrong. imo.

 

Can do.

I like testing at high speed tracks as well. Reason being that there needs to be some slip in the differential when turning into long corners at Spa for example so I can maximize turn in. But the full lock at over 100km/h seems pretty obvious to me right now. Just saying that testing subtle changes in dynamics at higher speeds interest me as well as low speed maneuverability if and when there’s an update.

What works so well right now is Trainer or Vee at Brands Indy back straight. That fast left hander needs a tiny bit of throttle lift and the car turns in eagerly.

It feels very communicative to me as well outside this one oddity I mentioned.

Oh now I see what you mean. Yeah that would probably show up as clearer non-linearity in rear tire speed difference since it first releases tension from engine torque loosening the diff to its preloaded state. And then once the mush/play was gone the engine brake would add tension against the diff’s coast ramp. What happens then would depend on preload and coast ramp of course, but you could probably see two distinct modes better in telemetry thanks to the play in the driveline.

But not sure if you can see it in diff behavior right now, because it likes to stay in lockdown. Do you mean that AMS2 simulates the play? If so I’ll test this later if and when we have a smooth and silky clutch LSD. Interesting detail .