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Physic discussion thread

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Avoletta1977, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. Romeo Foxtrot

    Romeo Foxtrot Active Member

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    Yes, the tuning helps. If the car is understeering in coast try raising the coast ramp angle and reducing the clutch packs.

    Take the 2021 Corolla to Azure Circuit (Monaco) and try a few laps with the default setup.

    Then raise the steering lock to preference, coast ramp to 85, power ramp down to 30 and 2 clutches. Now try Loews and the two Portiers. A lap under 1m 40 is quite feasible with this setup. Don't bother with it at Interlagos Outer.
     
  2. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    The problem is: none of that makes any difference. The cars where the LSD doesn't work, the diff is either

    a) fully locked 99% of the time and you have to drive it like a spool, or;
    b) opens randomly on corner exit and sends you spinning, i.e. bad.

    There just isn't a setting for some cars (FRetro etc.) that gives you a smooth, predictable, sensible LSD that opens when you want it. Better to just close everything up in that case and drive it like a Super V8.
     
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  3. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    It is definitely your differential settings making it drive that way. AMS2 has some issues earlier with it but now they are mostly resolved and with few exceptions diffs works mostly in a reasonable way now. Would you mind, just out of curiosity to share which car/track you were discussing about and which diff settings you were using?
     
  4. TKracer

    TKracer Member

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    Thank you. I will also mention that I always run stock setup except front sway bar.

    Let me get back to you about what car, I can't remember now but I'm fairly certain the Porsche GT3 behaved a bit like this. But I will try a few cars!
     
  5. Tranzitive

    Tranzitive New Member

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    Braking - what exactly is going on here? After 40 hours in this game I still can't understand how braking works. Even if I brake in a straight line sometimes, under hard braking the car will suddenly violently veer off to the left or right and end up in a spin. Trail braking in this game seems to be not working correctly at all as it is almost impossible to trail brake because of this. Even sometimes under lighter braking the car just wants to spin. At the moment it seems that the way to drive in this game is the following: brake in a completely straight line, entirely before the corner; coast through the corner; apply throttle in a completely straight line otherwise the torque will spin you out. I don't find this particularly realistic or fun, and this is not how you have to drive in virtually every other game out there.

    I have no problem at all in ACC. No problem in F1 2020, no problem in GT Sport, no problem in Dirt Rally 2.0 or WRC 9. In fact AMS2 is quite possibly the ONLY game I've played where braking doesn't seem to work predictably and where you get this violent spinning out of the car even under braking in a straight line sometimes.

    This is really frustrating and just killing my enjoyment of the game. I even made a whole thread about braking previously. In between the time of me making that thread and now, I have acquired a set of T-LCM load cells pedals and the braking still seems messed up in AMS2. I have searched the forums and found that issues with braking have been in the game since launch and people have been complaining about them since then.

    Add to that the issues with throttle and things are not looking good. If a game can't get throttle and braking right - two of the most essential things - then that is quite a big problem.
     
  6. McClutch

    McClutch Well-Known Member

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    Extraordinary work, Reiza

    I tried out McLaren F1 LM, BMW M1 Procar, M3 Evo, Corvette C3 R, C3, Sauber C9, Porsche 911 RSR 74. All those cars are still twichy, but in a predictable way. The better Throttle handling makes a big difference alone.

    @ Tranzitive

    Not all cars, and not all setups are make for trailbraking, it also sound like you have too much brake balance in the rear and a much to open LSD at decelerating. Try any of the modern Porsches, they react under trailbraking the way you want just out of the box.

    But to be honest, I was never much into "trailbraking", neither RL nor in any Sim, particularly not when power oversteer and the stabilizing factor of an closed LSD get's you better around a corner.

    Why Porsches might be better in that... they have a more closed LDS at braking and the rear always swings around easier due to car configuration.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
  7. stlutz

    stlutz Active Member

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    Basically before driving any car I go into the differential section of the setup screen and reduce the coast ramp down into the 30-35 range. Ticking the brake bias forward by 1 or 2% is something else I usually do as well.

    YMMV.
     
  8. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    There are multiple reasons why this could be:

    1. The brake bias is too far to the rear - pretty rare at this point, most of the cars have it far forward. I assume you already tried this.

    2. You are trail braking too deep - AMS2 doesn't like trail braking deep into the apex while turning the wheel hard like some other sims. You need to come off the brakes gradually as you turn in and then start getting back on throttle as you hit the apex, or otherwise the rear can step loose. I also found it hard at first, with practice you get the hang of it.

    3. The front brakes are overheating - once the brake temps hit 700-800 C, they start to fade and effectively the brake balance moves to the rear, which can cause a spin in heavier cars. Several cars benefit from opening up the front brake ducts.

    Your issues with throttle make it sound like something is wrong with your pedal calibration though. To me, AMS2 has the most responsive and controllable on-throttle oversteer behaviour. Are you getting the full range from your pedals with good fine control? Use the telemetry HUD to test pedal response. If the pedals are too binary, try reducing the pedal sensitivity to 35% or so.
     
  9. McClutch

    McClutch Well-Known Member

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    After last Update, I found no real use of any setting than 50 for throttle and brake. Thrustmaster T3PA connected to T-300 Base. Clutch is usefull at 35.
     
  10. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Agree. I would also add that downshifting aggressively is also a great source of rear instability even in a straight line, let alone while turning in. Other sims are way more permissive in this respect while on AMS2 you need to wait an instant more for the RPMs to drop a bit or you will lose the car very fast.
     
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  11. Tranzitive

    Tranzitive New Member

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    Okay thanks for the advice everyone. I won't reply individually to comments are multi-quote as it would probably be a mess of a post, but just respond to them all here.

    With regards to the brake balance, this sudden spinning happens even with the brake balance set forward into the 60s in the GT3 cars.

    I'm not in the habit really of downshifting that aggressively, I'm usually pretty smooth so doubt it's down to incorrect downshifting. ACC won't even let you downshift aggressively so I'm used to having to smoothly downshift from that (compared to something like GT Sport where you can just spam the downshifts).

    The issue happens even with even braking in a straight line, so even when i am not trail braking at all. That is what seems so strange to me.

    I will try closing the rear LSD a bit in the settings and opening the front ducts more. Actually the brake temps might be responsible for my issue as I was previously having a lot of problems with the brakes 'biting' so have been running them fairly closed to try and warm the brakes up quicker to get more bite.

    The issues with throttle ramp are well-known even here on these forums, and the throttle issues have been discussed in this same thread previously. Nothing wrong with my setup and others have reported the same issues related to throttle (seems like they might be fixed in the recent update though based on a post above.

    I will give the advice here a try with regards to the braking and see how things go on. Thanks again for the fantastic responses, they have been supremely helpful!
     
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  12. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    Only time I've ever managed to get GT3 cars to spin under braking without overcooking it on corner entry was when I had the front ducts too closed and they were overheating, so that would be my first go to.
     
  13. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    The bug, that was causing it is fixed with 1.2.3.0 ;)
     
  14. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Well-Known Member

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    I had a race tonight in BMW GT3 and never had the braking issues mentioned above. I did however manage to half spin on my last flying lap at Imola. I wasn't slowing down quick enough to make the corner so jammed it all the way down to first while training in that caused it, I thought something would happen as I was sure I pushed it beyond what it could do.
     
  15. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    FYI ACC is exactly the sim I had in mind. It will let you downshift the next instant after you touch the brake without losing the car as the engine has much less braking effect there. You can go down to 1st gear with car speed 120kph sometimes more.
    You can't do that in AMS2: you need to brake until the engine goes in the low RPM zone before you start downshifting. First gear for most cars a no go as it will unsettle the car big time.
    One other thing you could try, is to adjust the engine braking to very high values to see if it does help
     
  16. DavidGossett

    DavidGossett Well-Known Member

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    This was the thing that took me the longest to get used to when starting out with AMS2. Brake temps in this title are really sensitive and you either have to alter your braking technique or open the ducts more on most cars. It took me quite a while to relearn my technique to keep from spinning.

    Essentially the front brakes will fade from overheating, it seems like you miss your braking point, you add more pressure, the rear's are at optimal temp, the rears lock, the car spins. The only solution is to back off on brake pressure in "busier" sections where the brakes overheat or to force yourself to not apply more pressure when it fades.

    Every time Gamermusle streams AMS2 he complains about the "diff causing oversteer" when braking, but I think it's actually the brakes causing the spin, not the differential. I've always noticed that whenever I get that corner entry "snap" the front brakes are overheating and the rears are ok.
     
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  17. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Well-Known Member

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    There’s definitely some merit in what you say and i don’t think your views should be discounted.
    but also there needs to be some context.
    some cars are very tricky under brakes and some cars have very overexcited rear end power oversteer effects even some low powered cars that burst into lateral rear slide in 2nd gear late in the corner exit when they barely have the power to get off the line without being bogged down .
    but its probably only 10% of the content that i would say are an issue.
    the key thing though is you can’t really use other sims as an example , you need to imbrace that every cars is different and will react differently and ams2 does a good job of letting you feel it.
    Acc is very much a meat and three vege meal. it doesn’t have a lot of variety or personality.
    I seriously struggle to drive it because it doesn’t tell me what the car is doing, it’s too forgiving until it’s too late .
    you need to tune into the car in Ams2 , it will tell you it’s not happy with what your asking it. And the fun is in the taming of it in most cars.
    but there is a handful that are just a son of a bitch let’s be frank . but it’s getting less .
    And setting up your load cell for more delicate control is also a benefit in terms of brakes for those fortunate to have them. they do make a difference in the tricky cars .
     
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  18. Tranzitive

    Tranzitive New Member

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    Just wanted to post an update about my braking issues - it was actually the brake ducts being too closed and causing the brakes to overheat that was causing the issue, as another poster suggested.

    I opened the ducts up by 10-20% on both the front and rear and the issue has completely disappeared now. Did not change anything else on the setups besides opening the brake ducts up a bit more. Braking feels great with my T-LCMs now.

    Thanks again to the members of this forum for all their suggestions, the brakes being too hot is something I never would have worked out for myself! This forum is really a life-saver sometimes.
     
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  19. oez

    oez Mayor of Long Beach Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Yeah you really do have to watch out for brake fade, heat bleed to tires and also tire temperature along with pressures. Hot brakes ruin everything basically.

    Pre-emptive tip: ambient and track temperature means a lot for tire management. Over 40C track starts to be tricky to manage. It can easily get over 50C track at Long Beach for example. Under 10C has you looking for a way to maintain tire heat and pressures. Typically in 40C+ it’s easy to get rear tires to 95C+ and you lose confidence in the rear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
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  20. McClutch

    McClutch Well-Known Member

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    Anecdotal: I once overheatet the brakes downhill in a fully occupied Renault Twingo. That was quite a Horror. Made me think about ways to apply brakes a lot. AMS2 is the only Racing Sim that makes me have an eye on Brake Temps.
     
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