Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Alexandre Bauer, Feb 17, 2022.
Well, I said pretty much all this a year ago, but who cares about my opinion, just watch it.
Any chance of a quick summary? I can't understand what he says thanks
I haven't had time to watch the whole thing yet, in the part I watched he says in AMS2 brakes lockup too easily.
Got to agree with that
So, I just watched the whole video. Here's a summary:
-he says AMS2 has improved considerably since release.
-he likes the force feedback, wheel responds well when going over kerbs as well as when going over track bumps.
-he likes the graphics and says the AMS2 version of Interlagos is very accurate.
-however he thinks the brakes on the 2021 Stock Car lockup too easily, decreasing brake pressure to 80% in car setup helped decrease brake lockup but increased braking distance.
-he criticized the way the car has a tendency to go sideways on corner entry and how in several occasions he was able to go faster by going sideways around the corner (irl one would never go sideways in a Brazilian Stock Car because they'd lose a lot of time).
-he said irl Brazilian Stock Cars have better traction coming out of corners than in AMS2.
-he made some car setup adjustments that improved handling but some of the changes he made in-game would not work irl (eg: using minimum downforce).
-even with some mistakes he was able to do a laptime of 1:38.9 when irl Brazilian Stock Car laptimes around Interlagos are around 1:40.
The brakes are too snaggy because the longitudinal grip is lost too suddenly under braking, and it probably has something to do with tyre model changes post v1.3. Meanwhile all we get is "bro just put your brake pressure to 50%" or "bro just buy load cell pedals" or "bro just git gud".
You can turn on the auto translate function in YT - it isn't perfect but you get the gist of what is being said - FS7 has already summarised but it's worth watching with the translator for those interested.
TYVM. Hoping that Reiza devs are listening.
If he is right about this observation then the conclusion must be that there is something wrong with the change in longitudinal grip in AMS2 while braking.
Because if a car locks up too unrealistic easy while braking its a sign that either the braking effect is too high OR the longi grip is too low.
And if by lowering the brake force the lock up gets more realistic BUT the braking distance now gets unrealistic long then its again a sign that the longi grip in AMS2 is too low.
ByTheWay: Thinking about it I personally dont really feel this problem. But as said before Im only interrested in the highpowered high downforced formula cars where this effect cannot be felt - much (IMO). And furthermore we can probably all adapt to this! So the issue "disappears".
The bit he shows you can gain time when sliding the car around the corner is very worrying imo. It makes me think there is something wrong with the physics.
Anything that can be learned from a pro driver with RL driving experience in the car in question is extremely valuable. Its important that he understands FFB as well.
Although an exact 1:1 sim replication can be illusive, its certainly the ultimate goal.
Aim small, miss small!!!
Whether his conclusions illustrate a "systemic" issue that spans (some, many, all) cars is noteworthy as well.
There are a lot of moving parts with brakes.
Without taking anything away from his conclusion (or oppinion) then just because he is a RL socalled "pro"-driver then his oppinion about this issue doesnt suddenly become an objective fact.
There is a lot of examples where even F1 champions has hailed different more or less obscure racing games as extremely close to reality.
In that video he drove a car he knows well in a track he knows well and gave his opinion about that car, he did not suggest there's something wrong with the game's overall physics. I think it's important people understand that.
Imo the problem with brakes being too sensitive is specific with certain cars, same goes for the slide on corner entry (this one had considerable improvements after the differential update).
Many have been saying this about the engine since PC2...on a positive note you can only get away with it for a couple of laps before the tires melt and your times tank.
It's really only advantage is in quali but I agree it should be looked at along with brakes and corner exit grip...which bites me alot in this car
Sliding without consequences is still my main criticism of the physics. Especially on formula cars.
New driver's POV, very fresh, from last weekend's race.
I think it depicts very well what Vitor said in the previous footage.
I know that Kanaan is a much better driver than me, but the car looks like it has so much more rear-end grip. No massive snaps under braking or acceleration. Any instances of oversteer on acceleration are much smaller and caught much quicker than it seems in AMS2. It looks close though!
Im not saying you or some people here are completely wrong about this slightly more sliding tendency in the AMS2 physics/TM.
But as I saw in an interview with Renato about one year back then this tendency is a qualified choice he and the other devs at Reiza has taken.
He just called it that the cars are more "forgiven".
But before you and others ask if Reiza could turn this slightly more sliding tendency away in AMS2 then feel free to compare this with another sim who have a road track TM that absolutely not allows much sliding on the tarmac before the rear suddenly is completely gone.
Most of the socalled pro-drivers in iRacing does agree that what they use practice time for in iRacing is to get accustomed to exactly where the sliding begins - so they are able to by all means to keep their driving UNDER this unforgivable border.
And from my 5+ years membership I can tell that this gives absolutely not much fun.
It feels just like a rather boresome job.
As a compare then most cars in AMS2 is both slightly more forgiving and slidey - but they are also much more fun.
Laps after laps.
Absolutely there should be some sliding while turning....turning in and going sideways in a controlled 4 wheel drift and being faster is a bit much imo.
I wonder if the car has been developed irl and the sim has been left behind. When the Nova Geracao deputed in 2020, there were anecdotes that it was difficult to drive, constantly overheating the tyres and requiring countersteering to keep in check on corner exit. The more recent onboards don't really make it look like that (well there's still some countersteering involved but not as much as in AMS2).
Maybe the teams learned to set up and tune the car and it now behaves better? I don't really mind it now except for the weird snappy behaviour on brakes that makes you want to fly sideways into some braking zones that seems very hard to anticipate or control.
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