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This sim or that sim and real world experience

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by f1wheelnut, Jun 19, 2021.

  1. f1wheelnut

    f1wheelnut Never have I know so much that means so little ; )

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    I'm 56 and have a lot of life experience, but I'm not posting this as an expert in any way. Recently, there's been a lot of talk about AMS2, is it any good, what some influencers think etc. No Puntarino probably has the most irl experience of the guys I watch. Having said that, he's not put much time into AMS2 so I question some of his thoughts, but do not criticize any of them. Some of my initial impressions have changed with experience in the setups and the game devs work.

    My only real world experience in racing is some low level carting and driving and riding in a NASCAR. The NASCAR experiences I've had were three hot laps with a professional driver at the 1.5 mile Charlotte Motor Speedway and the Richard Petty Driving Experience at Walt Disney World Speedway, 1 mile tri oval, with 3 hot laps with a professional driver and I drove either 8 or 10 (old age can't remember) laps myself. At Charlotte, when we left pit road we were in third gear on the flat apron and I thought surely he's going to slow down a little to make the turn. Not even close. Nascar's are know for being lumbering beasts, but I can tell you it felt like the go karts from the stiffness and grip. He just kept pinning the throttle. The level of grip was way greater than I would've thought. We were turning laps of 35 seconds which is about 5 seconds off the pace of this years Pepsi 600 so we were moving pretty quick. That big track felt like the size of a Hoola Hoop when we got back to the pits. At Disney, the speed sensation wasn't there of course, but the cars feel was the same. The Disney car only had 600 bhp, but it was still a lot of fun.

    I've always owned and driven sports cars. I have a red 1989 944 that I push very hard at times on country roads where there's little to no traffic and I can see around the curves so as not to jeopardize anyone other than myself. So my takeaway form what little I know is AMS2 feels pretty good in certain aspects, especially the tires. I'm able to feel the car when it starts stepping out and I can feel the trail braking better than I can in AC and ACC, and just for the record, Kunos is at the top of my list when it comes to sims. I'm sure many of you like other titles better.

    I ran the AC side of things at Race Department for 18 months and the one thing I really didn't like was the fanboy attitude of some and constant bickering about this sim is better than that sim. My criteria is very simple. Does it feel like what little I've experienced irl, do the setup changes make the difference like I've experienced in other sims or is it completely lacking of any logic and the most important one of all...........does it put a smile on my face when I drive it. Other than that, I don't care what others think about what I like. It's like women. Does she do it for you and makes you happy. Everything else simply doesn't matter, it's what you like.

    My sim experience started way back with Papyrus Indy Car Racing and the entire GP Series by Geoff Crammond (thank you Sir Geoff, you set the standard). I've owned and driven many Nascar, Indy Car and F1 titles and the other for fun games like NFS, Forza and Gran Turismo, but I didn't think GP4 would ever be topped until GTR2. Then I came across a little nothing title called netKar Pro and my life changed, they were onto something and Live For Speed was also a very good experience. In all sims I drive the one thing I would come across every now and then would be the tires feeling very greasy, almost like driving on a damp road. Irl, I can catch my little 944 when it steps out no problem. The tires don't go from grip to immediately greasy feeling in that slide.

    Reiza, I've been with you guys since Game Stock Car. Please don't get discouraged and keep on developing and polishing AMS2. Right now, it is my SIM OF CHOICE. You've done something with the Madness engine that many of us thought would be tough or impossible to do. And the VR experience? Like the Mafia says, "Forget about it";):) It's simply awesome. Also...........thank you for the glorious BMW M1 ProCar. What a beauty.

    Cheers to all
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
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  2. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    I like this, I love alot of sims, driving games, and such if you like, they all have their strong points, there is some argument to which is most realistic but then again whilist one may be in one area, another may be in another area.

    I'd love to know what you think of this. Yes its an RF2 video, but it actually became about something else.
    You see i've got the idea that just maybe, the outstanding development curve of AMS2 might actually be benificial to other sims like RF2.

    I really do think that in terms of development (and speed of which), Reiza are way out in front and this just might be spurring on the devs of other sims like RF2, if im anywhere close to the mark then this can only be a good and symbiotic thing for all the sims and the community that loves sim racing as a whole. In which case, another reason to say Bravo Reiza!!!

    Then again I could be completely wrong, I do after all have a Youtube Channel so I guess therefore im a Youtuber, but I hope not what they call an influencer, I just wanna provide as honest findings as I can and make vids about what I love and hope thats helpful. I only wanna get likes and views if folks genuinely like the stuff and find it entertaining and useful, and maybe spark some good discussion. I don't like all the negitive attention stuff, infact if im forced to confront it I try and make a joke out of it. Also I'm never gunna bother making a video about something I don't like or have nothing good to say about, whats the point?

    Anyways, whatdya think?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
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  3. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    P.S. I loved GTR2 so much, its one of the reasons I love AMS2! It works so well as a full package. Also GTR2 had really severe damage (at 200% i found it to be very realistic), AMS2 has great damage, not quite at the severity of GTR2, but close. Would love to have even more severe and realistic damage, one thing that attracts me to a sim. It was so, so satifying to finish a long race in GTR2 at 200% damage without a scratch! On the other hand though, if you did wipe out half way through, you could at least go back and watch an amazing replay of the crash!
     
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  4. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

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    Sorry about the wall of text, but its great to see enthusiasm so I wanted to give a response that I felt was deserving.

    I think youve absolutely nailed it in the sense that its almost never an Either Or question. Its not the case that you either love AMS2 Or RF2 for example. In fact I have both in my library, I play both, and I like both for very different reasons. I also have AC, ACC, various rally games and at no point do I feel a sense of loyalty as such to the titles themselves. Studio wise thats a slightly different and more complicated question that comes down to engagement with the community, history of the developer, brand fidelity etc. This is revealed sometimes in the conversations online, although often the person doing the talking isnt really dialled in to those concepts.
    Rf2 has been chosen as the esports platform of choice and is widely regarded as being the One, once you can actually get to track that is.. and therein lies that titles main issue- epically slow development to put it mildly. The UI is the worst Ive seen in almost any game ever etc etc. Compare that to AMS2 with its quite extraordinarily fast development, the developing pedigree of Reiza themselves, the ease of use of AMS2 out of the box with its UI, VR setup etc, and its actually a testament to the underlying core of RF2 that its not totally dead in the water by now.
    Then there are all the other titles that all excel in their own unique way. Choice is good, so thats a good thing, and the threat of RF2 getting its ass in gear is a good driver of competition which in turn is a good driver of standards. Likewise AMS2 and its rapid development is a good thing for the same reasons.
    I absolutely do think that the position taken by some to bash sim X, Y or Z is ultimately a self inflicted injury. There will be a player base that will like that sim for what it offers- in my case I like F1 2020 for its single player career mode. I realise the physics etc are totally questionable but who cares if its fun. Likewise if I fancy some 'serious' racing then I'll knock Rf2 on. AMS2 at the moment lies between those two titles for me, saved by its easy user experience, its good UI (yes seriously- go and have a look at Rf2's if you dont believe me..), its great VR performance on my rig that struggles with almost every other title except for AC, etc etc. It doesnt have the ai or career mode to keep me engaged like F1 2020, nor does it have the same feel of Rf2 (as stated previously its sticking around for a reason), but those opinions shouldnt matter to anyone else at all. Why on earth should they..
    So in summary, Im unsure of the validity of youtubers positioning themselves as favouring sim X over sim Y for any reason. I dont see the logic and can only assume theyre getting paid to do it. Advertising disclosure I assume doesnt apply on youtube, or they are not thinking through what theyre doing to a logical desired endgame.
    Anyway, Im pleased youre doing vids in a positive way as its a good thing to spread the word online to spread the hobby. Its also refreshing to see someone who looks at each title on its merits. That fits in well with my own 'its not an Either Or' philosophy.
     
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  5. McClutch

    McClutch Active Member

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    I'm now 48 and I have to admit, I was a RL illegal streetracer in my 20's. Golf GTI, BMW 328i, BMW Z3 2.2, new Mini Cooper S, and now in my more reasonable days, a VW Up! GTI. I modified all my cars a lot, just waiting for the Up! to go beyond warranty to do the same. I took the BMW Z3 to Bilster Berg, Oschersleben and a Mini Copper S to Nürburgring on trackdays. I have hundreds of thousands of high speed experience due to living in Germany and our dreaded "Autobahn", which was more fun in the past than today and I stick to AMS2 after trying out a lot of sims for the "drives like real" feeling with my homebuild pit with full Thrustmster setup.

    I turned down AC after just 100h, simply because none of the road cars in AC was able to do what we did, "Running in the 90's" with our to the better or worse, tuned suicide machines. We did not make it out all alive. I lost a close friend on the Nürburgring in 2001.

    Some of the cars in AMS2 are still very jumpy and floaty, not even close to the road legal sport models that BMW and Porsche roll out to everyone, but it's improving and going into the right direction. I wish some BMW and Porsche had more of the Ultima GTR in terms of handling.

    I like the street cars in AMS2 a lot, I wish there werre more of them, including a front scraper like a Golf MK4 2.0 20V GTI Kit Car, my first ever turbo (lag) car.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  6. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos New Member

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    Good morning guys! Just one question...

    Has Automobilista2 Real Road? I mean... dynamic racing line where we have more grip than on unused areas?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  7. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence German localization/Testing Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes. Livetrack does rubbering-in of frequently used lines.
     
  8. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos New Member

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    Thanks for the reply @CrimsonEminence, so in short it works somewhat like in rFactor2 right?
     
  9. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence German localization/Testing Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Well...this sounds like a marketing text now, sorry but :D : It is somewhat comparable, Real Road does also dynamic rubber-ing of the track, but besides that, it isn't actually coming close...
    Livetrack has a bigger feature palette, like pulling dirt onto the road and taking these loose surfaces into account, transferring temperature/interaction between cars tires and track, where cars actually drive (rF2 tires don't interact with track temp at all, for example).

    More dynamic wet weather features, puddles actually contributing to aquaplaning and temperature dependent behaviour of water and road material.
     
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  10. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    Shame the current track shading looks like a coffee stain compared to PC2 livetrack.
     
  11. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos New Member

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    Looks like a good feature. So track grip isn't the same from one edge of the asphalt to the other like in AC for example right? There's more grip "on the racing line" right? Thank you!
     
  12. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence German localization/Testing Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Yeah, when cars are frequently driving over one part of the asphalt, this one will change appropriately, so coming off the frequently driven line will give you less grip indeed. (So for rubbering-in and for drying-out the line in the wet). In this regard, real road and live track are doing similar stuff.
     
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  13. f1wheelnut

    f1wheelnut Never have I know so much that means so little ; )

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    Sorry for the late response mate.

    I copied this from my comment on your Boobtube video. I really appreciate your response to my post.

    You make many great points mate. I like what @GSAM_DAD said. Personally, I look at history when it comes to the sims. Look at Kunos. netkarPro as unbelievable. Then they topped it with AC and then look at the step they too with ACC. Reiza? Game Stock Car was awesome, and imo, better than what ISI did with their own engine. Then Automobilista was even better and now, with a completely different engine, look what they've done with AMS2. Meanwhile over Studio 123 or whatever the poor lads are called these days, they've been very slow with development. Your video does show how much better it is now than it was a year ago, but for me, I'm calling it a day on rF2. It's a good sim, but like you said, it still has so many little bugs and setting up a server is a nightmare. I ran the AC side of RD for 18 months and helped out, well tried, with rF2 and I swear it was harder than getting my college degree. Once I got the hang of it, it was ok, but you say they've changed it agan!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? Yikes
     

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