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What do you think is the most significant reason AMS2 userbase is so small?

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by GodzillaGTR, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. HeMuLiZ

    HeMuLiZ New Member

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    That when I am close the to that point when car start sliding
     
  2. jamespoly86

    jamespoly86 Member

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    For me AMS 2, as AMS 1, is the best racing car game. I enjoy a lot with AMS 2.
    Reiza should advertise more the game with youtubers, press etc... with content prewiews for example.
    AI editor and custom liveries are greater strengths as a lot of cars and circuits.
    But in my opinion there are many bugs to fix.
    For example:
    1) with custom liveries there are duplicate liveries
    2) in qualifying AI cars blocking each other
    3) improve AI race overtakes
    4) realistic tyre wear in formula ultimate with change type of tyre after pitstop
    5) custom championship not fully implemented
    For a user that play many racing games these things are obvious.
    In my opinion Reiza should create a group of testers and fix problems.
     
  3. Shriukan

    Shriukan Touristenfahrten Community Reiza Backer

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Reiza Backer

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  5. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    It turns out that "release current gen F1 cars to AMS2" was the correct answer.
     
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  6. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    I know people are not going to like this post, but the question was asked. This forum tends to be a little biased, but if you want actual feedback from the regular simracing public, this is probably as close as you're going to get. rFactor 2 shows that terrible user interfaces AND ugly graphics are not a problem for most. So those are irrelevant.

    The problem is, honestly, the lack of polish in almost everything in AMS2. Content is released with blatant, horrible bugs and problems and bad physics all the time, and new content is released before those bugs and problems are fixed. Moreover, they're always tweaking the physics (and they should), but it results in loving a car one update, and then hating it the next. But it's the bugs, inconsistencies, weird physics, and lack of play testing that hurt the user base at this point.

    How could anyone drive the Formula Retros on day 1 of official release, and not realize they had a major problem with the differentials? I dont expect people to know what the specific problem is but they should be able to tell something is wrong. I called it that first week, that there was a differential problem. By the way, some cars in the game right now have their ramp angles set up backwards from what they should, so setup adjustments behave the opposite of what you would expect. Especially confusing since they're perfectly fine on other cars. But what blows my mind is that they released those cars with the problems they had. Everyone who drove them could tell something was wrong with how unpredictable and frustrating they were to drive. But Reiza thought it was fine. THIS is the problem. They dont polish their content before they push it out. People try new stuff and it's terrible and move on. Furthermore, they find cars they once loved suddenly drive completely differently from one update to the next. How can you settle in and enjoy a game when it's constantly shifting?

    Even a few weeks ago, I noticed the Mclaren MP4/4 has one of the front tires rotating backwards. It's super obvious. All it took was one person to play test this thing and go "Yeah, the tire definitely shouldnt be rolling backwards!". But no, that's how it was released. Assetto Corsa mods are often released with more attention to detail than AMS2 releases.

    The lack of attention to detail and the constant tweaking of things means content is unpolished and amateurish upon release and good content that exists cant be guaranteed to be good later on.

    This is ignoring the problems with multiplayer, between randomly fogged over mirrors, pit strategy menu tweaks forcing a game crash, people getting dropped from the server during session changes, weird lack of synchronization for the starting lights... The problems never seem to end and most would seem to be solved by a little playtesting and attention to detail.

    Its definitely possible Reiza will figure it out. It's made big improvements. I've got over 1000 hours in AMS2 at this point. But my friends and I never really bother driving it in much any more. Every time we do we see the same problems and shortcomings. To me AMS2 is just rF2 with worse physics and force feedback and better graphics.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  7. McClutch

    McClutch Active Member

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    I think you really nailed it here, there is nothing to add. I see it for myself and my twindling online race group. Now with summer at the doorstep my attention for this title is passing out fast. Gaming in generall is a wintertime thingie for me.
     
  8. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    @InfernalVortex

    Well, development of such ambitious title as AMS can only be iterative and ever rolling, especially given the size of the team. Even if Reiza had the size and budget of Polyphony Digital, there would still be bugs and people would still not 100% be happy. Sure, some stuff would be be polished to absurd levels.

    One could argue that Reiza is too ambitious with that much content resulting in almost infinite combinations of track/car/weather/rules/AI, making thorough testing impossible. If Reiza wanted to pull an ACC with only 2 car categories to polish indefinitely, they could have, but it's not what they do.

    Content is released when it is deemed 'good enough' to be enjoyable (maybe with caveats), and to be further polished. This might slightly change with the new public betas, to add that extra test and polish before public non-beta release. Reiza does not sit on content for months, to reach that hypothetical polish perfection that is a pipe dream anyway. And there has been the long process of learning the Madness Engine, physics in particular, which I believe they are starting to really reap the benefits only since a few months.
    The way AMS2 is developed is probably what works best for the team, given all the constraints.


    Ultimately, the sole fact that a sim like AMS2 exists is a miracle and an anomaly. So let's enjoy what we have (which does not prevent constructive criticism).
    In case of doubt, instead of agonizing over the 5% that does not work, think of the 95% that does, and that instead there could be nothing.
    Finally, simracers should temper their wild expectations of perfection to more reasonable levels.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  9. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    Yeah I dont even really disagree with you about any of it. But it doesnt change the foundational reason the userbase is so small. You have to have a reputation for quality content to really get a movement of people from other sims, especially coming from a known quantity like Project Cars 2 which is generally known for being really inconsistent in terms of quality and quirky at the best of times.

    The way I see it now, AMS2 basically competes with rF2 and Raceroom for users. And rF2 still doesnt have a very big userbase, it just has a lot of respect and goodwill/trust from simracers. When they release something you generally know its going to have great physics and it'll be polished. AMS2 isnt going to peel people away from Assetto Corsa, iRacing, or Assetto Corsa Competizione very easily, and those are by far the biggest games in the area.

    Honestly, they probably know this and that's probably why they approach their releases the way they do and keep their staff so small. It's probably smart, and like you said, the best way for them to operate. But it's going to probably mean they'll always be a niche market. Which is probably fine, and may be all they really wanted.

    I also think the 5 percent that doesnt work is usually pretty serious issues. The ones I mentioned I think are all game breaking by themselves. Like I still cant believe the game still has the foggy mirrors problem when racing online.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  10. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    I agree.

    Some points though:
    And it was eventually solved. Like you know, i was part of that reveal aswell and it took time but we got there. This isn't different to other things.
    Caterhams for example are set after a real life titan diff config (higher coast ramp angle than power ramp and high lock on power). There is nothing set "backwards". It's just beneficial for the nature of some cars. Cars don't always drive with cookie cutter 60/40 diffs.

    Also what ramp angles concerns -> less ramp angle means more lock, that's working correctly.
    Nothing "backwards.
    There is no MP4/4 in the game. EDIT: yeah forwarded that reverse running MP4/1C sidewall. That one slipped through!
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  11. DaWorstPlaya

    DaWorstPlaya Active Member

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    For me it's lack of multiplayer polish and options and multiplayer bugs. For any game to have replayability it needs to have a strong online multiplayer presence which has largely been ignored, IMHO.
     
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  12. Daniel Goulart

    Daniel Goulart New Member

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    He is talking about Formula Retro Gen3 MP4/1C. The inside of the front left tire is spinning in reverse.
     
  13. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Ah okay, thanks!

    EDIT: Yeah it's the sidewall texture exclusively, which spins in the wrong direction. The tread texture moves correctly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  14. Roar McRipHelmet

    Roar McRipHelmet Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I searched for a dedicated Steamcharts thread (I'm pretty sure there is one), but this was the most recent and relevant thread to post in. Player count stats for the last week, from steamcharts.com:

    7-day peak:
    1. 989 - Project CARS 2
    2. 920 - Automobilista 2
    3. 919 - RaceRoom Racing Experience
    4. 905 - rFactor 2
    Worst daily peak last 7 days:
    1. 844 - rFactor 2
    2. 806 - RaceRoom Racing Experience
    3. 689 - Project CARS 2
    4. 555 - Automobilista 2
    7-day minimum:
    1. 226 - Project CARS 2
    2. 162 - rFactor 2
    3. 134 - RaceRoom Racing Experience
    4. 109 - Automobilista 2
    All-time high:
    1. 6726 - Project CARS 2
    2. 2600 - RaceRoom Racing Experience
    3. 1758 - rFactor 2
    4. 976 - Automobilista 2
    Sources:
    Automobilista 2
    Project CARS 2
    RaceRoom Racing Experience
    rFactor 2
     
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  15. Gazzawesty

    Gazzawesty Skunkedup

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    So things are looking up then
     
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  16. McClutch

    McClutch Active Member

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    What counts is not a meta player count, but the hard facts in our games multiplayer tab: 20220414131321_1.jpg
     
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  17. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Reiza Backer

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    It that between 6 PM and 3AM CEST? If not, try again during these times. Much more lobbies, with some more variation. Well, keep in mind these cars been released not so early, so they're played the most. Give it a week or two and you will see even more variation.
     
  18. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    The player base also isn't multiplayer only...
     
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  19. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. HeMuLiZ

    HeMuLiZ New Member

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    Okay, I have to pull back a little bit of my words. The latest cars feel much more realistic than older one's. Those cars where you hear the tire sounds when you drive on straight line behaves strangely, but newest cars have a clear improvement. I guess it's an old PC2 tire model which makes cars so bad. Looks like this game is going in the right direction.
     
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