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WHERE IS LIFT OFF OVERSTEER????????????

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by florian ray, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Member

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    But would a nice stock setup fix this entire issue?
    Don't get me wrong, I rally like the tinkering and have learned a lot since playing AMS, but not everybody feels that way.
    I personally feel that have either a solid baseline setup, or a very easy way of sharing setups (so Reiza doesn't have to do it themselves), would make the game more accessible.
    I think I agree with steelcast's comments on how setup can fix most raised issues. I mean, if seen/done it myself. But if someone is not very knowledgeable with the stuff, AMS just doesn't feel right. So, if they don't understand setup, it kind of makes sense that they blame the physics.
     
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  2. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Not sure how much work it would be for them honestly, but I think a great deal of ACCs popularity is the fact their preset agressive setups are really competative.
    I remember using race engineer a lot in the beginning with PC2 but ultimately it does take a lot of time out of the actual racing.
    Heaven forbid Reiza going PC3 on us, but I think a lot more people would stick around if AMS2 felt better “out of the box”, which would benefit both Reiza and us as simracers as they would see more sales and we would see more people in public lobbies...
     
  3. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Member

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    I would guess, too much time. This is why I think the sharing of setups should be easier.
    If setups could be in all sessions, as you can load them in TT, it would be a big improvement. If as rating could be attached to a setup, that would be even better, because that way the most accessible setups would be easy to find and use.
     
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  4. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Personally I do find it fairly pointless downloading others setups as it's mostly catered to their driving style, which renders it kinda useless to me. A load of the guys I used to race against thought they were being smart doing that but they rarely achieved much come the race as it wasn't what they were at home with. They weren't comfortable.
     
  5. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    I think you and the guys you refer to does believe too much in the falacy that a setup is some wizardy that can make wonders for as example an average driver.
    I cook my setups myself but but to get a quick and easy idea of as example wings and gearing I allways download 2-3 of the TT top drivers setups.:cool:

    Because beside what I have earned considering what wings/gearing others does use - I have also found that most of the TT setups are copies of each others with VERY few personal changes.
    Hehe most are 1:1 copies :p

    So much for the pointless downloading of personal "forreign" setups.:p
    Either almost everybody use "forreign" or others "personal" setups for good - or it doesnt matter at all if the grasped setup has anothers name on it.

    ByTheWay: Considering my favorite the F-Reizas setups then the "personalisation" is mostly ONLY on a few clicks on Roll Bars.:whistle:
     
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  6. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Member

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    Personally, I also make my own, but to me it seems that having a good baseline setup would solve some issues people are having with the game.
    It is just that I think would take too much time for Reiza to do, so having a community collection is the next best thing, even if it is a compromise.
     
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  7. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Maybe I missed something in the conversation, I certainly wasn't saying that Reiza need to produce bespoke setups. I was only saying those that lift TT setups don't tend to do as well as others who have honed their own setup themselves, in longer online races. That would be totally unreasonable of me to ask Reiza to produce a sh*t tonne of setups! I'd still use my own anyways.
     
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  8. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Theres one big problem with this. Im willing to do this stuff, youre willing to do this stuff. Most people on this forum are probably willing to do this stuff.
    But how big is the group thats not willing to do that stuff?

    Im not just talking super casuals, they will keep playing Forza and GTS.
    But I imagine theres plenty of others, like me, who want a serious sim racer, but dont have the ambition to play a serious sim mechanic.

    Your id is great for those who are still around, but a lot of people will try a game once or twice and just say to hell with it because the cars (on default setup) behave worse than other sims out there.

    Now add a few youtubers in the mix that have the same id and a ton of people wont even buy the game in the first place.
     
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  9. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    A racing game where you can take the default setup to any of 20+ circuits and drive around without any issues of understeer or oversteer is not realistic at all. Many race cars irl need a completely different suspension for Nordschleife, Formula 1 cars have vastly different rear wings at Monaco vs. Monza, etc., yet any random combo is supposed to work out of the box with a default setup in a SIMULATOR. Give me a break.

    In Assetto Corsa, you can take most cars with the default setup (in many cases the manufacturer factory setup) to any track and drive around no problem once you fix the cambers and tyre pressures to 27 psi. If anything is simcade to me, it's that kind of stuff.
     
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  10. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    You are exaggering this "default setup" issue way way too much.
    And to show this then just check out some of the TT LBs.;)
    Because on almost all LB you will find that there are a lot of (hehe stubborn :D ) drivers who 100% use the default setups - proving again and again that you can even top lists using these default settings.

    ByTheWay: Yes its often normal that the top 3-5 positions are drivers with slightly tweaked setups - but eventhough this is pretty irritating (in a good way :D ) then it just shows that there are allways faster drivers. Faster drivers who probably would still top the lists if they were forced to use default setups.
    So much for the falacy that personal setups are SO urgent:rolleyes:
     
  11. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    I wasnt saying anything.
    I was told the cars I drive in AMS2 dont have proper physics because of the default setups.
    Very different thing.
     
  12. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Relax dude. No reason to turn this into a “my dad is stronger than your dad” discussion.
    If youd actually read my posts this isnt what Ive been saying at all.
    I was told I need to learn how to make or download a setup in order for my car to feel like it handles like a real car.
    Nobody is saying a car should be fast on all tracks with one base setup.
     
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  13. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Member

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    Fully agree

    I know. This is the big disadvantage of this method. But to be honest, I think it would be the only solution. I'd rather see Reiza spend their time on actually improving the game, than make setups.
     
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  14. Synaks

    Synaks Member

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    No, I think he means each car should have one setup that is just an ok setup for most tracks. Right now most cars have a setup that works poorly at all tracks. Why don't we do this for Reiza, if anyone has the ability to contact Renato, we could all chip in to design new default setups and then Reiza could just put our setups in the game as defaults. I think this would be a great solution to the default setup issue.
     
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  15. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    Principally a good idea.
    The only negative thing I could think of is that who (from Reiza) should use a lot of time to evaluate all the uploaded user setups?
    I mean to be able to select one or two as the best allround.

    ByTheWay: But if it could be done using a lot of Reiza ressources then this 1-2 user setups could be made official beside the one existing default setup that is now.;)
     
  16. Synaks

    Synaks Member

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    I don't think anyone at Reiza would need to test them, we would make them and have others on the forum evaluate the setups, and when we agree a setup is good, Reiza puts it in.
     
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  17. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    Setup issues persist in other sims too, AMS2 is far from being the sole offender in this respect. Some examples off the top of my head:
    • AC provides mostly factory default setups, many of which are awful to the point of being almost undriveable (e.g. KTM X-Bow or McLaren F1 GTR).
    • R3E broke the default setups on many cars after the December 2020 update. Their M3 E30 bounces like a kangaroo because the dampers are wrong, the 190 EVO is completely undriveable by default (engine braking and suspension are wrong), many formula cars have broken aero because they added porpoising simulation but didn't update any of the setups so they suffer from diffuser stall, etc.
    • ACC broke the aero balance of the aggressive preset in a recent update, now when you try to take Eau Rouge with a slight lift using the AMG and the aggressive preset, you fly into the wall at Raidillon without any chance to correct. You need add rear wing every time you want to use these setups.
    Fundamentally, there is a wicked problem that no one has been able to solve; as soon as you change the physics, the setups need to be changed and this has to be done potentially for every track separately. Until the day when no more physics changed happen, there is not going to be a perfectly satisfactory solution.
     
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  18. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Again, nobody has said other games are perfect. And nobody is claiming Reiza has to make perfect setups all the time that cant be broken by physics updates.

    But until someone from the dev team chimes in Im going to assume they want to make the best title they can and make a **** ton of money so they can keep making games and retire early.

    Were not blaming anyone or saying one dev is better than the other, but talking about things might eventually lead to a solution or improvement that benefits everybody.

    If you look at sales numbers I see ACC doing like 10x better than AMS2 and I think anyone who thinks this is purely because of the popularity of GT3 cars has their heads in the sand.

    So if you want Reiza to keep making games and improving on them I suggest you try to think of a solution instead of just saying “every game is broken” so deal with it.

    I think AMS2 has a pretty good following and this seems like a cool community so why not take advantage of it?
     
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  19. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    Well there's nothing stopping them from taking setups from Steelcast27's videos and making them the new default setups.
     
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  20. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Do they create that LOO tho?? :eek:

    Just kidding, thats actually a very reasonable id
    They should probably just give him a job :D
    Come on devs, we know youre lurking! :p
     
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