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Automobilista - How the FFB works and what is new about it

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Mar 9, 2016.

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  1. Martakus

    Martakus Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Since last week's patch, the FFB has been dragging my wheel *into* the direction I'm trying to turn and I really can't think of any reason why it should do that. Aka when I turn the wheel right, the FFB pulls it further right, and the further I turn, the stronger the pull gets. What is up with that?
     
    Martakus, Jun 2, 2016
    #21
  2. Thiago Izequiel

    Thiago Izequiel Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Martakus, are you using a negative value for the ffb strenght?
     
    Thiago Izequiel, Jun 2, 2016
    #22
  3. Martakus

    Martakus Member AMS2 Club Member

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    No. I've tried several ones and found 33% to be okay...
     
    Martakus, Jun 3, 2016
    #23
  4. Thiago Izequiel

    Thiago Izequiel Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    What wheel are you using? Try with -33%.
     
    Thiago Izequiel, Jun 3, 2016
    #24
  5. Msportdan

    Msportdan Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    is there any chance of turning off ffb druing replays, I get massive oscillation watching one, and never ends up back in the centre. SCE never did this I think.
     
    Msportdan, Jun 3, 2016
    #25
  6. jo_siffert

    jo_siffert New Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Wouldn't it be better to ask that question in the bug reports or something similar? I think that's the wrong place here...

    @Martakus Can you try +50 and -50 and then see and feel a difference? Which value is closer to reality?
     
    jo_siffert, Jun 3, 2016
    #26
  7. Martakus

    Martakus Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Using a negative value fixed it ^^
     
    Martakus, Jun 4, 2016
    #27
  8. Dirk

    Dirk Member AMS2 Club Member

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    This is a quote from another thread that I think belongs here and also I have a question about it:

    How does the scaling work? Is it a proper relative scaling of the whole FFB curve for the car or does it just flat cut off the "tops"? And what happens if I set the MaxForce HIGHER than the actual peak the car puts out? Will the forces be scaled accordingly, i.e. will they get weaker and weaker? Otherwise it seems to me I could set MaxForce to -99999 or something, and that would get me the "perfect" FFB for the car in the sense that I would get the full range, and then I could use the FFB force slider ingame to get it below hardware clipping. Am I understanding this right?
     
    Dirk, Jun 20, 2016
    #28
  9. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    I´d just amended the opening post to include that info Dirk :) So anyone who´s interested on playing with Realfeel settings should revisit it.

    I´m not the resident Realfeel expert but I´m fairly sure if you set MaxForceAtSteeringRack to a higher value than the actual peak on that given car, forces will indeed become weaker or "dilluted"; if you set it to a lower value than the actual peak, it will scale your wheel FFB strength (which is a combination of your controller & in-game setting) to peak at that MaxForceAtSteeringRack value, clipping anything beyond it (in case the car is capable of pulling higher forces on the steering rack than what you´ve set it to).

    As per the previous reference, our default values clip 20-30% of the forces, otherwise weaker wheels would feel very light under lower steering forces. Users with stronger wheels may want to reduce or eliminate that by increasing MaxForceAtSteeringRack.
     
    Renato Simioni, Jun 20, 2016
    #29
  10. Dirk

    Dirk Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah I tried with 9000 on the Opala and there was barely any FFB left.

    I'm still not quite sure if (for example with the Opala) these two settings will result in the same FFB:

    a) FFB strength 50%, MaxForceAtSteeringRack = 900
    b) FFB strength 100%, MaxForceAtSteeringRack = 1800

    In case b) weaker forces (below MaxForce) will be scaled down by half because of MaxForce, but then doubled again due to FFB strength, ending up at the same point. However, if I understand it right I'll get a larger total FFB output range because I have less software clipping. In which case shouldn't it always be preferable to set FFB to 100% and then tune MaxForce?
     
    Dirk, Jun 20, 2016
    #30
  11. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    That´s what I´m looking to confirm, but your assessment is my understanding too, yes.
     
    Renato Simioni, Jun 20, 2016
    #31
  12. Supa

    Supa Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yes I'm using a Bodnar DD wheel and I have that always set to %100 in the wheel software and then use the numlock RCTRL 7 to increase forces or R CTRL 9 to decrease as I drive. I generally have to reduce forces by at least %100 percent for this wheel. Say a car has standard MaxForceAtSteeringRack = 1800 I have to double this number at least to 3600 then fine tune! I use Rfactor 2 FFB meter to give me an idea of when my wheel clips.
     
    Supa, Jun 20, 2016
    #32
  13. Dirk

    Dirk Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Alright, thanks. I guess you don't strictly need to go for 100% FFB, you could also use the true MaxForce of a car and then tune FFB accordingly, but since we don't know the true MaxForce (mabye put that as a commentary in the file?) going 100% FFB and tuning MaxForce gives you the best chance of not having software clipping.
     
    Dirk, Jun 21, 2016
    #33
  14. Dirk

    Dirk Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I have another question regarding the FFB. I feel the feedback from bumps on the track is a bit much, for some cars on some tracks it feels like I'm wrestling a washing machine. This is on pure 360 and without clipping. Is it currently working as intended or is the FFB still being tweaked?
     
    Dirk, Jun 26, 2016
    #34
  15. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff AMS2 Club Member

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    Can we have a system similar to AssettoCorsa chere you can load a .lut file for ffb?
    I am referring to this: LUT Generator for AC
     
    DaVeX, Jun 26, 2016
    #35
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  16. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Few points regarding the latest FFB improvements in AMS v0.9.8:

    The main change is the pneumatic trail fix via PneumaticTrailGripFractPower (PTGFP) function, which is embedded in the physics. It´s changed how pneumatic trail works and its effect on the FFB, which should provide a much more natural feeling for tire grip.

    We have also added a "FFB Low Force Boost" Slider to the Controller menu - this works sort of like a "Minimum Force" setting, in which higher settings (around the default 80%, recommended for Logitech wheels or similar) the forces come in earlier, while lower settings (20-40% which are the old defaults) are recommended for stronger FFB wheels such as T500, Fanatec CSR V2. If you have a Bodnar or an Accuforce-type wheel, you probably don´t need this setting at all and may keep it at 0%. The graph attached gives an idea of how slider works.

    Adding this force boost slider allows us to set default values in Reafeel with more accurate values (less clipping) than before, since weak FFB on lower range wheels is less of an issue. PTGFP in turn makes FrontGripEffect in Realfeel redundant so that´s now set to 0.0 globally (vs 0.2 before).

    Finally FFB while the car is standing or moving very slowly has received some new code of its own (unrelated to the FFB while driving, though its effects can also be increased/decreased by the FFB Boost). We have added some lowe speed functions and tweaked the "parking lot" realfeel values to eliminate or at least minimise wheel vibrations / oscillations while standing still.

    All of these should hopefully grant Automobilista an all around stronger, more realistic FFB.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
    Renato Simioni, Jul 15, 2016
    #36
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  17. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff AMS2 Club Member

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    Yes it is!!!I love it!!!
    Great work guys as usual, you rock!!!
     
    DaVeX, Jul 15, 2016
    #37
  18. TDS

    TDS ;-) AMS2 Club Member

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    G27 with low force boost at 60 to 74% and with 107 overall profiler strenght, is giving me suberb FFB, nice! Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
    TDS, Jul 16, 2016
    #38
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  19. macmaniacoes

    macmaniacoes Member AMS2 Club Member

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    New FFB update:[​IMG]
    Yep, pretty much
     
    macmaniacoes, Jul 16, 2016
    #39
  20. Paulo Gomes

    Paulo Gomes Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    That was my first reaction, but took me very little time to start feeling the differences, and imo is really better now, for me the best ffb in sim racing.
    The small things like driving slowly is better, in some cars when soften the arb's the ffb was getting lighter to the point it was necessary to change the realfeel values, now is possible to feel the difference but ffb remains always good, and the main overall stronger feel but with good detail! I could say that is spot on, but Reiza can always amaze us with something better.
    Conclusion, the new ffb is a really good step forward, and AMS is a really much improved game comparing to gsc, in such short time. I am really very glad I have supported the campaign last year, I'm having a really good time playing Automobilista :)

    I use logitech profile with 100% strength everything else to 0%, and in game 100% strength and low force boost around 74% for all cars.
     
    Paulo Gomes, Jul 16, 2016
    #40
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