Automobilista 2 V1.1.1.0 RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.1.1.3

Ooh ok, my bad. Yes I agree that it does feel a bit soft this way.

 

I don't want the Group A's to be ultra-stable, they are certainly not that in AC or R3E. I like throwing them around in those sims. But I do want them to be consistent and I do want them to respond to setup changes.

Some cars in AMS2 simply do not respond consistently to inputs and have random handling characteristics in slow corners. Too many times in AMS2 I enter a slow speed corner at or below the limit of grip, but then I randomly get the characteristic "AMS2 bin", where the car lurches sharply into the apex and performs a slow 270 degree spin into the infield. Maybe it's due to the diff popping open, maybe something with the tyres starting to bounce under loading (another weird AMS2-only thing). Unlike other sims, I have no clue what I did wrong or how I should correct my inputs. That makes for a very frustrating experience.

As for the setups, the defaults for some cars are geared toward lots of oversteer both on and off throttle. That's fine, but it should be possible to make adjustments to get them to be more stable. If I literally cannot make the car understeer under any configuration, something is wrong. In the end, these are souped-up executive sedans for German dentists to drive around Düsseldorf, not 800 hp dirt oval monsters.

 

Man, that is a lot to take in, think I will have to read that a number of times to process it all.

 

I drove a E46 BMW 328i for years and used the full speedometer a lot. I also had the rear go off on dry roads a few times. Currently I own a BMW Z3 and took it onto the Nordschleife once, as well as a VW Golf IV GTI 20V. I do not compare driving Sims to other sims, but to real cars. AC never felt like driving a car. Currently AMS2 also lost it with ther last patches. I alsways experienced driving powerfull cars a something thats feels easy and natural, not difficult. The fastes thing I had the chance to drive on our Germen Autobahn was a BMW 850i, the most nimble and agile one was a BMW Z1 on the winding mountainousroads of my home area. When a Sim can not replicate that and just makes a natural thing feel hard... something is wrong with that sim. I literally grew up in a cars mechanic shop and hence none of the cars did stay stock for long, so i know what a difference even small changes like tyres, shocks and alignment can do, as well as custom differential lock. But none of them, when done inside the manufacturers specs, can totally change the base driving character of a car.

 

This is more like it, thanks for elaborating.

 

That is exactly the reason. And reducing the tires grip as recently happened brings more forward the issues with the differential since the diff opening is really controlled by the rear wheels longitudinal grip.
When something like that happens you want to change "coast ramp" or pre-load to move away the point at which the diff pops open: either make it more easy to open if you can or make it really stiff so that it will not surprise you mid-way through the corner. If you make it stiffer you may have quite a bit of understeer in faster corners and you may have to drift your way through slowest corners though

 

@Renato Simioni sorry to cite you and give you yet another notification in the Alerts menu.

I remember that a long time ago I questioned if we would get different tyre compounds for the F-Ultimate (and the other open wheelers that have it), and the answer was yes but not before AI is properly calibrated, as to avoid making things even more complex by adding some new variables. Can't recall if it was said exactly like this, but certainly something along those lines.

This approach definitely makes sense and is perfectly understandable. We've witnessed AI behaviour improving update after update, but for every fix it seems like a couple of new (or old but hidden) issues pop up. This might be the old saying of the dog chasing its own tail: an endless task.

My question is: if perfecting the AI logic or just making it good all-around is a never ending task, or a task that looks like will take a quite long time to get right, can't we get more tyre compounds for the open wheelers in the meanwhile so we can have some nice fun with online leagues? If possible, make it available only in lobbies with no AI so that these variables wouldn't influence the honing of the AI development?

I understand that this sort of thing might not communicate well with the community (many are likely to come and ask why they can't choose Super Softs when racing in offline or online with bots). I also understand that this is such a lesser feature than AI-logic, so prioritizing the most urgent one while ignoring the other seems like the proper path to follow.

If that is not possible or Reiza understands it as not being the best approach, then I will ask another ungrateful question: what is the target date to have the AI logic as final (or good enough without the need of major changes)?

 

Yeah, I tend to agree with ya on the DTM and super V8...
the super V8 has always felt super rolly and squirly to me, I've accepted that maybe it's just not for me.
The DTM\Group A cars have had major changes over the last few updates, and now require much more diligence with the inputs. feels a tad eager to come 'round on ya.
Though oez makes some excellent points as usual, and apparantly he's pretty quick, so I've heard?
But that wasn't really the point, was it? They can be driven quickly and consistently with skill, but either exceed my skill-level to some degree, or just plain fall outside the realm of what I perceive to be an enjoyable and engaging ride...
I land ever so gently on the side of; I believe said cars may benefit from some mild tinkering on Reiza's part.
I will also try AndreiC's setup for the Bimmer.
Saw you were on t3pa's? They were one of the biggest issues I have faced concerning ams2. Swapped 'm out for CSL w/loadcell. MASSIVE improvement, mainly the feel with brake modulation and trail braking. I've noticed with some other classes they are a bit more unforgiving under heavy braking after the latest physics revisions. GT3's even, but for me that's a positive and makes it more lively.

 

"where the car lurches sharply into the apex and performs a slow 270 degree spin into the infield."

Yes....I'm developing a phobia for certain corners because of this. We should not have to approach corners with teeth gritting and sphincter so tight it could crush granite?!

 

It's the PRO version,wich i also use.But each his one,no problem with this in any sim,as i 'm used to them.I tested the CSL,but without Loadcell,sure it is a differnt feeling with cells.

 

I reckon a Reliant Robin would handle a 60km hairpin better than the bmw

 

I've been driving the Ginetta G40 GT5 cars the last few days, espescially on Oulton park. I did not expect it to be so much fun! Driving the AI in this game is really great. The handling is fun, the engine sound is great and the AI has come such a long way since last year. Absolutely amazing!

 

I agree with you - but..
Be aware that no commercial racing game/sim is able to calculate a "realistic" grip in slow speed corners.
The reason is that they use the same TM (calculation of tire/tarmac adhesion) for high speed and low speed.
The only sim who had an alternative (and much more "realistic") approach was NetKar Pro - who used 2 different tire models.
One for lower speed and one for higher.
All other racing games use the same TM just with a gradual changed tire/tarmac adhesion calculation.

ByTheWay: In all existing commercial racing games/sims the car allways does slide.
Less or much ofcourse.
But in real life there is a lower speed/lateral force thresshold where the tires absolutely dont slide.
Hehe just like a Reliant Robin

 

There is a reason for the high price of "simulator" used in real racing.
This is multi-category, multi-era advanced phisics (ams2 universe phisics) piece of software. I think the core code is locked, they can trick parameter, twist them, change them but not modify the core itself.
I suppose if anyone can afford 3000-4000 $ of equipment, in the same way can pay much higher cost for one specific car ,one of kind simulation software or a month fee service.
Before, every update was a party, now I have the feeling that the pressure on the developers is so high that we are going to a more "difficult driving is better" situation. This may please the ultra equipped guys. Are these the majority? have we abandoned all the others to their fate? Cheap steering wheels / gamepad / wooden chair / one monitor ...screw you, buy something. I "play" for fun and sensations, not for calculations and technicalities.
I just a thought, have fun.
... but.

 

Question: How is that green track/used track thing supposed to work?

Did some "Test Day" sessions with my beloved F_Classics Gen 3. Track felt ok and predictable. A lot of grip.
Then I did some 15 lap races, starting from P 26, and was a lot slower than in test, thinking the used track in races should be pretty quick, though.

Well, thought it must have to do with fuel load, tyre consumption and, of course, traffic.

So, I switched off fuel load and tyre use (like it is in TT), did some laps in "Test Day" again.Felt pretty good, was quicker due to just having 1 l of fuel.
Later switched to "Single Race" once again, just short 5 lap sessions, starting from P 1 this time, in order to avoid traffic and gave it a go with the same setup as in tests. Still was slower than in test day, although I was not stuck in traffic or fights with AI, just doing laps alone at the top of the field. Was thinking that the used track, which the game simulates in races, should allow faster times. But it wasn't like that. Tracks which I tried: Kansai and Interlagos GP. Repeated the sessions several times. Starting time for both sessions, test and race, was 13:00, clear weather.

Did I completely misunderstand how this development of track is meant to be?

 

I fully agree with you here.
And I can still remember how much fun I had and how challenging it was to drive the cars in NetKar Pro.
The price of NetKar Pro was like any other game. You could even get it for free if you grabbed it at the right time.

ByTheWay: The highly regarded sim Ferrari Virtual Academy was also based on NetKar Pro - and if I recall right then some of the RL F1 teams used NetKar Pro as the base code inside their own simulator.
A role that was later taken over mostly by the rF-Pro code.

 

The numbers of simulated car in Netkar pro was?.. and 2 years every update, i was there, with my logitech momo.
ByTheWay:
I had a fiat 500 , the real version was hardless to drive.

 

OK my good man - thats your oppinion
But come on - this is not a serious argumentation against this sims "realism" (IMO).
Even if nKPro have had only 1 car then this would be pretty irrelevant conserning how "realistic" this 1 car did behave - in as example slow speed corners

ByTheWay: Even if AMS2 would only offer half the cars as now then my (pretty positive) assesment of how the AMS2 cars do behave wouldnt be changed.

 

Be aware that running too many AI on a low-end machine can overload your CPU and slow down the rate at which the simulation runs, which leads to lap times that are increasingly slower and slower as you increase the number of AI. This may contribute to the slower lap times independently from the grip levels. It really is something I have not seen since the days of Geoff Crammond.

 

I wasnt aware you could adjust the numbers of AI in AMS2? I havent done too many custom races but I know in championship mode its not an option as far as Im aware.