Automobilista 2 V1.2.0.0 & Racin´ USA Pt1 RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.2.1.4

Agreed. I’m driving the GTEs with TC off and I don’t have any difficulty abusing the throttle out of corners. I think we may just have too much grip.

 

The list of things to correct over time is getting very long .

This is the reason why Raceroom and Rf2 struggled with sales and divided their player base for years until they redesigned their offers 1 or 2 years ago with more complete but cheaper car and track packs. People in general are not against paid DLC but the way they are packed is very important. AMS2 is good but It is not yet in a position to set its price so high or sell its content in track by track or car by car basis. I will surely buy some if needed but my friends said it's a hard no.

Talking about player base. Reiza should be very careful because AMS2 can become a platform to promote the other sim. They may lose their existing player base also. AMS2 tries to give so much but most of the time cannot reach the expectation. The "this is a beta feature" and "this is a long term development sim" may not work forever. Sometimes people need something working here and now. And the competition is fierce.

For example the buggy and somewhat very limited custom championship in AMS2 made me love the ones with AC(CM) and Raceroom more. I've never touched the one in Raceroom before but yesterday not being able to run the one in AMS2 i've decided to try it and loved it. I've bought almost all the content in RRRE so I could do some full 2021 custom championships.

Another example, the flag system with AMS2 made me love the one in RF2 more.

Another example. The GT3 in AMS2 (prior v1.2) made me buy ACC few months ago. I would never buy ACC if I didn't play AMS2. I wanted a more complete and accurate experience. Now I only play GT3 with ACC.

The windscreen rain drop effect in AMS2 makes me love the one in the old but good AC (shader patch) more. In AMS2 the droplets are just random transparent textures popping and fading and it's very obvious in triple screen. With AC they are like very alive dynamic fluid. It's hard to explain but if you can, see it on Youtube. It's a key for rain immersion. The windscreen droplets should make you able to see the car speed, the car inclination, the rain intensity, etc. Visually the track is very dynamic in AMS2 but AC can approximatively reproduce the same effects and it still in development and the team doing is able to do some wonders.

It's not easy to satisfy everyone but it's up to Reiza to build a priority list with the features that are important to players.

 

someone might have to do a comparison , and see how accurate ams2 is .
Snowy lap around Mount Panorama - Supercars

 

Sure, it won't work forever, but long term development is the most common strategy in the sim racing genre, and is quite well understood by its community.
It's the chosen strategy because the genre is niche, and the development studios are smaller with smaller budgets, who need to maintain cash flow during the project.

All 3 of AMS2's main competitors have followed this development strategy:

• RF2 - ongoing post-release development for 9 years
• RRE - ongoing post-release development for 8 years
• ACC - ongoing post-release development for 3 years

As far as I know, all had a fledgling period where they were derided as under developed and in need of improvement - yet were all successful in their own right.
I don't see that AMS2 is different to any of them.

 

NOTICE:
There is a chance that what i'm going to say is totally wrong so don't take it too seriously. It's only my point of view and I'm limited in time and space.

In 2021 the sim landscape is very different as the sim genre boomed so each sim is very active. If you look closely most of those sim are focused in something specific so each of them offered something that the other couldn't until few years ago. Also those 9 years was not full patience and love from the users, RF2 and RRRE was also fading until they added some key features and redesigned their offers and prices few years ago.

RF2
RF2 path was not glamour. During the 9 years RF2 changed ownership and was somewhat revived by S397. People hated RF2 UI but could not find similar physic and FFB elsewhere for many years. It was the king of GT3 until ACC came out. Other than Iracing, Rf2 was also the first that was focused in US content but AMS2 seems to steal the show from it.

ACC
We tend to compare AMS2 development cycle to ACC. They are fundamentally different. Associated with a chaotic performance issue, ACC launched with a very appealing pricing system and it was already way more popular than AMS2 1 year after the release. ACC is a GT3 focused sim also so the amount of work needed is not similar to the work needed for a generalist sim like AMS2 (became generalist). In sum all they have to do was fine tuning opposed to AMS2 which still seems to be in a identity definition phase after 1 year. The only thing that AMS2 and ACC have in common is that both are struggling with game engine capabilities ( UE and Madness Engine.). ACC had and still have many graphical performance issues with UE on PC and Console which is still limiting the usability of the sim but the physic and content quality made the balance.

AMS2
The AMS2 case is very special because people seem not giving it 3 years. The player declination during the first year is showing it. Also it has a such divided community. Many went from big fan to haters and vice versa. It's the only sim that have so frequent users mayhem on the forums and Youtube. Special formula = special results..
Anyway the release of v.1.2 more than 1 year after the beta is marking a new start of AMS2. This version got more universal recognition from the sim racing community. We somewhat have lost 1 year defending a weird physic for finally aligning it to the other sim.

The market doesn't give AMS2 3 years also. AMS2 got more exposure from its GT3 and GTE content not Brazilian content. So AMS2 jumped into the trendy content arena which is a more broader and dynamic market now. One thing that could be an issue is the fact that AMS2 entered the arena without a clear identity and specific strength yet (other that dynamic weather which will be a standard for all sim soon). RRRE is making a big update soon, AC2 will only come in 2024 but it's already launching its hype train. RF2 will reacts fiercely as the US pack is stealing the show from it. Even Forza 8 which is coming next year which will be more simulation could influence AMS2 fate. Imho AMS2 has maximum 1 year to sort all things out (content, identity, bugs, features, pricing, etc.)

This 7 years steam charts shows that historically AMS2 is the only one that doesn't have steady growth. It has even a tendency to decline. Not because AMS2 is bad but because the community mindset and the market has changed. For AMS we have some peaks but those are mainly new update and DLC releases. ACC was low at the beginning also but showed very high peaks that showed a big potential and eventually converted to fast growth. RF2 has a steady and constant growth after s397 took it. AC is just a monster...

 

Is that looking at sales or concurrent online players?

 

So true. And its possible there was a market saturation or just even more means now of player retention. That some of the earlier games there were against games not listed in the graph but by which these games sealed their fate.

As to the graph we should get rid of the first part of AMS2 as it came during covid. Its an outlier. Now look at it, mate It looks much better.

Speculatively, think of your stock price, its a lot more reassuring now, isn't it. If we remove it for AMS2, then the equivocal thing to do, is to remove the others. Its unlikely we will have another covid thing/bubble in the timeframe of development. Not useful for purposes of discussing conclusions.

The conclusion I reach on the graph is the others were in a position to capitalize on it. They had the scope, the capability and the existing product base. They could be flexible in pricing, and they had the known-expertise for their games on board.

-- so I want to give the real run down on the competition of your dollar, you must be wondering - because there was literally nothing AMS2 could of done in that period to change what happened. Whatever happened is for them to reveal or explain, that is fine, and I think they did? But they chose the moment and they had to roll with the punches. For the time it was successful because they had an influx of capital, and they used that to improve the game. Yes we see a rising graph - thats the capitalization of them, getting revenue, then falling off. I don't know about net income (in USA its a different term to our country) and all that, but the game is still being actively developed so its not all bad. And we know 1.2 is better than .09 for example.

Every time there is a new influx to a cause or market, the new people with new ideas and cultures from other areas, inevitably change it.

Well I also think just on that - no corporate espionage or nothing, I think some out there did their level best to be detractors to the title, smearing it. But of course no one is going to say a hater is a bad thing necessarily if the criticism is warranted in some capacity. Except when that is a time constraint, so I always remain skeptical on all claims until its reasonable to not do so. Even with this more forgiving tact, it should not be the end of logic - important conclusions are needed and the post is very good. Games are strange beasts, and at any point there may be no more money forthcoming from the populace. They may say oh we had our fill of AC and only free mods now thanks... or we had our fill of RF2, etc. I wonder just what AMS2 intends to do with considerations I make later so to as not run into this issue. In terms of its positioning as a product. Which I think will guard it against various outside measures. If we give it box art, and put it in an old games box and 'sell' it as a product in a store - whats going to make someone pick it up?

We could say the same thing of Forza - once an 'arcade gaaaaameee... euuughhh." lol... now its "Oh! I want to be a sim!" It won't but they will try to swing something in order to give it a certain flavour or make you think better of its shortcomings. Maybe its glitter or glitz, not sure, they will be cracking open the cognitive-override research for it.

People can see the value in that so the product-provider tries to give. The other side to this whole thing we see here and on this forum, is fan-service, that dynamic. It can be great, because often 'fan service' like in a star wars movie is easy to deal out to people, but sometimes like I was explaining with race room etc, they picked a spot or avenue and got the features and they hone it. RR defined itself around smooth and equalization measures for competitive online racing. It might be ok for AMS2 to be an all-rounded sim, but in 2022 for example, I don't know how all 50k-150k people will think. I think its something that needs to be looked into.

My own views changed in 1 year too. And when I form commentary on this I try to not be popular or nothing, I just try to even step aside from my own appreciations, because maybe the sim I want is different. But I think 1.2 is the new baseline. I am thoroughly impressed. Now it needs a purpose. We went from hotlapping and spilling off the track like drunken merkins, to being able to conduct excellent multiple lap races with great ffb (physics quibbles aside), to multiple races in the beta championship, weather etc, but what is the sim's end goal now within the timeframe. So it makes me wonder how 1.2 will affect how it will position itself into the new market that is firming around it.

The "pivot" in the corporate world is not a new thing, I think the situation they will arrive at and this is not anything I am saying, will be they spring off this spot on a new tangent. What it is I do not know.

The other truth about racing games is 1 they are boring. True story. They need lots of content because once you 'win' your brain is in a different mode and 2 they need competition naturally, because once you win, you win. That is not like those fools playing warcraft for 20 years at 10 bucks a month - they never 'win'. Less certainty is a good thing, but how to go about it all is another question. Some use a currency or coins, progression where cars getting thrown at you is for the sake of more dopamine, some use ratings systems, guess once that is in place, I suppose the company could reassess at least.

 

I'm not buying into this too much grip scenario.
In most cases the cars have a huge lack of grip/stability compared to my realife experience.
I'd start with looking at acceleration times and also top speeds reached between corners.
After the driveline tweeks a lot of the cars seem way to fast in terms of speed not grip.
Its also easy to say a car is too grippy when the driver isn't pushing it beyond the limits.
Most time is made in the braking zones/acceleration phases not during the min apex speed.
So I would definitely start there with AMS2.

 

Hi just on this I agree. In race room to coin another game, there is a surge from the car as it struggles to accelerate. Just like a bike its fast then efficiency is being cut down by physics, and even wind resistence, the engine then overcomes it and surges again. In RR you feel it in the middle somewhere, and its like denying the acceleration. I know RR is a game where they standardised it all, but the effect is welcome actually.

AMS2 is currently missing this, and a pairing off of the things you mention, are the case I think.

For people wondering maybe its the difference between moving through air verus the resistance of water. I think AMS2 is too "digital" in that regard.

The front wheel loading I put into the custom file of karstens musclefuktor,

where "front load" is 0, I put it 0.4, for my wheel at least, a TX, alleviates a lot of this sensation. But its placebo in respect to what simmo just said. Maybe this is why in AMS2 people don't identify with the fact you can over accelerate a straight so much easier than in something seemingly more simply like raceroom. I actually think now that in those games the 'acceleration' denial effect is helping keep the whole game-package in its intended box.

Which I did like about AMS2 that you could over turn and over accelerate, the trouble is the braking. So the smooth - go round the track at high speed like in F1 Reiza at laguna, 30 laps easy and wonderful - is not there for all cars.

- could it therefore be simmo's over accelerate/under brake aspect of the game needs shifting slightly somewhere in the model. For myself personally now I know a crap ton of grip is there, I brake much earlier in a lot of cars. I think the issue is identified and real though. To a degree its there.

But this being the more complicated madness engine, its my guess the end result, while probably much better, will be arrived at in a much different manner.

 

I don't think it's possible to have sales history chart yet but a sale estimation is possible
There seems to be a pattern
More sales = more owners = more concurrent players.
Steamspy which is 10% accurate also shows a relation between sales/owners and concurrent players if we calculate the ratio between them, something like 2x more owner = 2x more concurrent players.
AMS2 has 100k-200k owners for now.
AC has 1 000 000 - 2 000 000
Assetto Corsa Competizione has 500k-1million
RF2 has 200k-500k
Raceroom is the only exception it has a lot of owner but not much concurrent players because it's free to play 2,000,000-5,000,000

 

You can always use other stats/methods to check the result.

Such as 1 game review for every 40-58 purchases.

I think thats how some of those 1-2 million ranges come about. The less the sample size the more dificult to tell though, so 100-200k (if they go off acheivements or whatnot) is probably flubbery.

Still 50 dollars times 50k is 2-3 million revenue. Rezia are in brazil, thats considerable as to their purchasing power.

Also youtube down to typing. 10% of 10%, and 50% of people neve ever post a single message on a forum who are 'keenly interested' in a game. Its just not in them to do so.

Political science is a little in the same way for judging groups, as politics is made up of individuals. Its not all about right or left, center, off center, etc, There will be certain traits players have within the large racing genre of which these sims are only but one segment.

Next consider patch 1.2. And its cut-through of the news cycle. Its penetration. Yes this is a marketing term but when it comes to news, people need the cut-through.

Consider a famous sports star - he sneezes and you pay attention. The argument from authority or he's famous so you think it best to pay attention (due to news/information which flows through him) in your brain due to the existing attention upon him.

A lesser known star - he may have to lets say do something, anything! to the level of 8/10 in order to get noticed. There is less existing attention upon him, so you are less 'attenuate' to him/her. This is the begining of the concept of momentum in laymans terms.

Now, when it comes to push through into a market segment you need to play the news cycle and yes we heard one - in development - but the good thing about patch 1.2 is the cut-through it got. People stood up and took notice. In these things as I explain above, think about it - you need a significant 'power projection' or presence to unseat an incumbent who holds such attention.

"power projection" thanks `merica. Go listen to 4 star generals talk about topics, study strategy, etc, this is the expectant force in front of your actual physical presence. In sports, right, they plonk a team down in an area- well they are busily getting players growing up into the system/ranks. They talk about propaganda "how great will it be little tommy! When you play for Liverpool! Or Wigan! You want to play for wigan, Tommy!? NO!?? You got to feel the red, boy! " And indoctrinate his line of thinking. "Tommy, those who don't live in wigan want to beat us, mate...remember that" etc
Anyway in order to ride the news cycle as it happens on its little cycles, not fully sure about computer gams, but there is long term and short term, and people call in favors - its not a meritocracy. What this means, there is no merit. You say to the paper, please run a story for us - ok, and then in March next year we will make sure our best player talks to you in a 1 on 1."

The pleasing thing about 1.2 at least was the attention it got.

 

There few reasons its hard to accurately compare if you're trying to measure how successful/profitable AMS2 is at this stage.

• AMS2 is a premium price product and not heavily discounted yet. So, lower volumes would be expected, but perhaps countered with higher margins.
• You can regularly buy AC for just a few bucks and ACC is regularly discounted too, which will bolster it's online numbers, and RaceRoom is free to play as you said.
• Reiza is the smallest studio of the 3 (to my knowledge) so lower sales volumes may be perfectly sustainable to it.
• Reiza has placed little focus on MP at this stage of AMS2's development. They may have a plan for this, and a growth forecast as part of its project plan. Everything may be on target for them.

I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, just that there may be other variables that only measuring concurrent online players doesn't factor.

 

Exactly - what about the listed filters and amplifying surrounding circumstances, what mitigates and what enhances your choice to purchase - heck! Was your purchase even a rational choice? Was it the red in the title - the fact that some magic existed in the brazillian racing scence you previously had no idea about, was it the promise of a better Madness engine game etc etc

Is it backwards rationalization, etc your peer group simply does not see the situation like you do. 50 bucks versus AC's 11 for all dlc or even freeplay raceroom.
I told the turtle the other day to buy dirt rally 2 for 1.50. lol

__

But as to his message, he would have to speak for it, but in reality, he wrote all that knowing that we understand some of the underlying issues

At this stage, the key ingredient for any of the forum, is a proof of concept. This is what happened in the custom FFB file the other day. That, to my mind, is the key critical factor of his dissertations on the matter. Like a manifesto. Stats are a great way to help overcome bias.

A proof of concept is a good idea because we are not identifying or solving. We know the problems. His post alludes to the fact that he wants to know 'the course' ahead. And why it seemed to him to go off the course he thought it may have or should have proceeded upon.

__

Example pricing - 50 dollars, what about the old addage of I walk into a bar, and YOU see me pay 30 dollars for a beverage. You go - holy cow thats expensive (and I agree that is ridiculous for water lol)... but you are now more inclined to do it yourself. AMS2 was sold to you on what it was going to be. What if 5000 people walk in behind you and do the same thing and gently ask you if you're in the line, and say something like "hold on mate! We gotta get some water!" and you step aside and watch all 5000 buy the water.

You jump to conclusions....with no information about anything you begin to wonder - rationalize the proposition before you. 1 someone bought water and I want water 2 the water is 30 flipping dollars!

= maybe it got super hot outside. Maybe they are stocking up, maybe the water has magical properties? MAGICAL? pfftt... no... but is it, maybe someone famous is drinking it too etc etc. Now I personally think a solid game with the madness engine is a good thing, so I actually purchased it. But you need to see someone playing it and enjoying it. We see more and more with patch 1.2

Denial.

Is it hot outside? Well.... thats up to you to decide. But denial is like a rubber band.

edit/addition: you see a new product against AC, just say, and your denial about AC will eventually stop you from playing it though you currently do.

Its the same principle as you move toward one you may move away from the other, unless like most businesses it begins to act defensively to protect your custom.

What AMS2 has been doing is acting proactively which is good, as right now, its built capability but it was/is also flexible....it was in a more lucky spot, just not in the covid sense to capitalize; and once they prove that internally they can increase the scope...see... when a business functions like that externally (forget internal skillset and planning and budget)... it can take bigger risks... see you don't increase the scope if you just will compound mistakes etc.... but we all know that acting defensively too as a business is a good strategy. I am not giving advice nor do they want it, I am just speculating, use these things to plug into your own arguments and determine if the hypothesis is true.

The other thing guys, is, this is digital, ok. Things can accelerate really fast, all of a sudden. The ability to duplicate process and distribute in digital is in their favour.

 

I just hope that they can keep up with the future car licensing. For example they implemented Gt3 cars , those content are expiring very quickly, people are expecting a new trendy version each year (evo version, new year version, new brands etc) . It's a psychological thing. An another example, the GTE cars will be replaced with GTD pro next year so the US content cars may lose sparks soon. Unfortunately or fortunately, sim racing market is deeply linked to real world motorsport so it's a parallel run. Something like the long awaited Senna pack would be more fitted for a small studio as the licensing may cost less and it's a niche that is not following the fancy market. As a niche Reiza is free to set whatever price they want and will be competitive.

 

What this guy is referring to is the pointy end of the stick. Its not that. If Mahony - you did not get the innitial stage fully spot on then this idea must come from somewhere else - does not sound like a bad idea, but truth be told, its goodness or lackthereof should be reliant on other things.

This guys could be one of the misguided ones who I didn't want to deal with, truth be told, but out of my own kindness I did. Thats ok.

He would be on a whole other level now.

Jump in the f1 reiza at brands hatch, early morning, take 3 clicks off the front ARB, set brake bias to 57 or 8. Have both adjustments mapped to your keyboard, make sure its morning 9am at Brands, winter does not matter.

Get the muscle fuktor custom file, add my changes if you need to, the whole tire flat spot 0.07 and front exagerated feel 0.44.

Drive.

They need to replicate that. It takes time.

You think its a good idea to chase ferarrai lol if that crap above is not doable?

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Why would I say something so horrible? No offence I don't know you, the idea is important. Well, don't be so stuck in 'what was'...some of those hot heads who disagree with me are stuck in the design phase and propaganda marketing of the mid 2000s, old hands who don't like seeing the exposed underside.

I don't want to deal with them IF I have to get through all their baggage and erroneous pre conceived notions.

Newsflash - the sim already kind of but not fully, shows you don't need ferrarai and etc any one else (but boy is bmw great and mercedes etc) to eek out a positive, engaging sim. Oh yeah, it helps to lend it credence. But they are not at that point. I would say in one way they 'need everyone' but also those guys already own it. And not just that, they would play a decent game of course. The stage they are at is getting things corrected. So they can go do that - I guess the trouble is of course in a strategy they would need to concurrently do several things at once.

So I hope it pans out for them.

"As a niche Reiza is free to set whatever price they want and will be competitive."

Who told you that???? Nah, man. Literally ever f*ker ever baulked at the price - and others can drop prices and also give things away for free.... I just got through explaining that they were off playing other titles or whatever, holding out in a wait and see, because its more nuanced than we think: people are multi faceted and conflate in logical terms what we see outwardly, they are bouncing around 400 ideas internally and DON'T TAKE ACTION.....

this is why positivity is a huge thing.

But I personally think its worth it, which leaves me in a predicament. I think people should be dropping 200 dollars on these games, and for a base game like Forza up to 140. People who do not have limits put on them in that regard with their spare money will drop that. This is why the industry in gaming is so concerned about the whales. 1 guy with 5,000 dollars is basically waiting to be frisked if he can be catered to, some business models are egrigious, sure, but not most in sim racing, not even iracing but I actually consider that ridiculous beyond belief. Sure but to say they can charge anything is not true just because someone has earmarked 200 bucks for it. Price points are not predicated on these things.

The value must be realized at some point. Mate, its all been done before, this is why casinos go out of their way for millionaires and billionaires. One loss at a table and thank you sir. IF he goes away without being treated fairly, he may not return. He may loose 500k at the table (and he only wants to play 100k+ tables) but he will say yeah but I choose to lose that much and I had a good time,.

In sim racing - you don't have a good time? Tough bikkies. See There's no other consolation to it all. Here we must drill down and differentiate things, see, Reiza is a studio and they have people in it who have jobs, lives, a company reputation - we may well talk about AMS2 but whats next for the company etc. They can't just charge anything.

 

Don’t forget the singleplayer enthusiasts like me.
The MORE DLCs the better. Reiza, throw me 100 DLCs and I‘ll buy them….

 

I agree. Example given: give someone the possibility to only buy - lets say - daytona track or any other new track (as a standalone dlc) separately from all the other stuff. Same for the new cars

 

I don't think thats how the engine or concept works even. In the example where I walked into a bar and ridiculously bought the 30 dollar water - it took 5000 people to make that stick.

* think about this concept at the end - your own brain cognitive workings/holes are always switched on, sometimes they work with you, a lot of the time they are used against you.... I will loop this back

I already set the price. The market has already set the price. Just because you do not agree with the price does not mean you will not determine to pay it.

In your example, it is contrary. See... this is not the case because others see it different- and eventually if you don't pay the price you will come to see that you missed out on extra value NOT that you saved x amount of dollars.

You will want more, not less. Yes, yes, race room works like that - its done so you eventually pay more money, and they can circumvent steam's cut.

In their example the buggers make back the 30% steam tax or whatever level they pay now, and they also get you when you buy the external currency and its not evenly split, and they make it as convoluted and in your face as possible, so you will in fact buy more - does not matter and the denominations are not even...

i.e you want to spend 50? No way will they let you - they want you to spend 55 now, then 35 later from your next 50 dollar note. Habit forming. You have 15 left - guess what lol - they want you to spend 25.... You really think you are going to save the 15 credits (or whatever) for a rainy day? they won't let you... on purpose. They already know you CAN'T convert that currency back into real dollars.

Be thankful Reiza are doing it like this, please lol.... now remember the "*" at the start?