Automobilista 2 June 2022 Development Update

If we had those 2. It would make a great final goal in career mode to complete the 'triple crown'

 

I am saying that the article is mentioning correctly that the displacement was 5 liters and maybe the stroke could have been shorter than the previous engine but it is not the previous engine with shorter stroke nor a ghost 6.0 V8 used for two races only. The V8 is a completely different basement from a different design, which incidentally may have a shorter stroke assuming that article is right on the measure itself.
There is no track of a 6L V8 ever in that car or in any other race car.
Probably some web pages are wrongly mixing, if you note they are especially lists BEFORE the event including the list you referenced from ACO which doesn't show the engine architecture, the old displacement with the announced V8 fractioning on the new car.
There are three engines that went into that lineage of cars: M119b (V8 5.0 for 1998), M119c (V8 5.9 for 1999) and M120 (V12 6.0 for 1997 and a bit of 1998)


Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR - Photo Gallery - Racing Sports Cars

FIA GT Championship Silverstone 1998 - Car Data & Information - Racing Sports Cars

 

I (cant) feel it, coming in the air tonight

 

I know the V12 was a 6 liter engine, why do you keep bringing it up? I never said otherwise, I know the CLK GTR raced a completely different V12 engine that had 6 liter displacement, that doesn't change that the OFFICIAL ENTRY LIST for Le Mans 1998 had the CLK LM listed with 6 liter displacement as well.

And curiously the sole CLK LM road car had a 6 liter V8 engine, so saying "there has never been a 6.0l V8" as you did now and in your previous post is just wrong anyway.
And curiously the same source you used, racingsportscars, has the CLK LM at Le Mans listed with 6 liters too: Le Mans 24 Hours 1998 - Car Data & Information - Racing Sports Cars

Btw the CLR of 1999 had a 5.7 liter engine, not 5.9.

 

Surfers Paradise is mandatory for CART and SuperV8

 

The list from ACO is the provisional list of approved participants without passing from the pre-tests (if you see on the bottom it is dated well before the actual race "weekend"). They are listing the car with 6.0 likely because at that point in time the 5.0 V8 had never been fielded and possibly not even been homologate yet. Actually to my knowledge cars were technically approved at the event scrutineering not before for the LM24 (and this over the time lead to several last minute surprises, read the Ferrari 333SP coming from IMSA specs) as the LM24 was an event for itself out of any championship at that point in time.
As for the link you sent from the site I gave you, if you go into the results for each race you will see the car is correctly listed as a 6.0 V12 for all races before LM and as a 5.0 V8 afterwards. So evidently there is no race where that car would have been fielded and therefore it's surely a typo or an imprecision.
There is indeed a lot of imprecisions in the classification of the car's displacement in conjunction with the engine architecture across many sites and that is likely because of the mid-season change from the old model to the new model.
Apologies for the typo on the 1999, the concept still stands.
There is, in the list of Mercedes racing engines no track of a 6.0 V8 used in those two races before Le Mans. In facts there is the M119 that was used in the 80s, the b version that is the 98 5.0 (same displacement as the 80s) and the c version for 1999. There is no gap in the versions letters too.
I add one engineering point as well: if you are going to Le Mans you are almost certainly not going to look for a shorter stroke engine as that decision will shift your peak power higher up in the RPMs all other parameters similar. The biggest reason anyway is that you will increase wear and stress on all the moving parts like pistons, conrods, bearings, crankshaft as the average speed and the acceleration of the moving parts grow super quick by reducing stroke.
So it is hard to believe that Merc went as far as to use a cross-plane crankshaft for a race only instead of a flat plane in order to reduce the stress on the engine and then reduced the stroke increasing the risk of failures again. Also stricter restrictors for Le Mans would not align with faster revving engines. The opposite.
Confirmation of this seems to come from the decision for 1999 to increase displacement again likely to optimize exactly these two aspects.
Also I meant race engines, not roadgoing engines, different matter
As for the road cars (again from Wikipedia).

Ilmor Engineering provided enhancements to the engine, increasing displacement from 6.0 L (5,987 cc) to 6.9 L (6,898 cc), once stroked up to 92.4 mm (3.64 in). This increase in displacement coupled with the removal of an air restrictor allowed for a maximum power output of 612 PS (450 kW; 604 hp) at 6,800 rpm and torque of 775 N⋅m (572 lb⋅ft) at 5,250 rpm. Mercedes-AMG claimed a 0–100 km/h (0–62 mph) acceleration time of 3.8 seconds and a top speed of 344 km/h (214 mph).

 

Just that the Pre Qualifying for the 1998 Le Mans was on May 3rd, more than a full month before that, where the CLK LM participated as well.

Anyway, if you don't want to believe they used a 6l version that is totally okay with me, I think there are quiet a few indiciations for it however, but I don't care too much about it and wasn't a main point I made in the original post as it is not even relevant for AMS2.

 

Exactly. They listed the car that existed in May (the 6.0 V12) because the 5.0 V8 did not exist formally, possibly even physically yet, before the car turned up to LM for the scrutineering and pre-race tests and quali later that year in June.

 

Ok, so you either completely misread what I just said or you are just ignoring it.
The CLK LM V8 participated in the Pre-Qualifying on May 3rd.
The official Le Mans programme for the actual event in June only listed cars that qualified there or by other means (winning last years Le Mans for example). So the CLK LM V8 physically existed and was scrutineered because it participated in said pre-qualifying, they knew which version Mercedes was using at the pre-qualifying and they listed it as 6 liters.
Also the scrutineering took place at/right after the pre-qualifying, famously that year the Lister Storm GTL didn't pass it and the year before the Nissan R390 didn't pass it after setting the fastest time, which is why they had to relocate their exhaustsystem and in consequence got overheating problems in the race.

 

Scrutineering happens in the week of the race not before. The limiter changes to the 333SP for example were handed over after the tests and just before quali.
The list you see is the list of those who will be part of the tests and quali and was almost certainly issued before the pre-quali tests and the quali events. So basically before the two weeks extended event that includes tests and then quali.
As such the car could have been listed rightly or just by mistake (if they knew "officially" the change would happen) as the standard known 6.0 V12 for whatever reason.
That does not change the fact that there is no RACING engine ever listed (and the nomenclature proves it) as an M119 V8 6.0. Nomenclature goes from M119, to M119b to M119c and there are no gaps or doubts.
Confusion or typo errors however you want to consider those discrepancies are not the proof of something that evidently is not existing and in the vast majority of literature clearly does not support this version.
If you want to dream of something that does not exist please do.

 

The Historic versions of those circuits would be great for the off-road pack...

 

Again you answer and ignore 90% of what I said.
Please do some research on that matter, this program only lists the cars that passed pre-qualifying and scrutineering which took place on May 3rd, a month before the qualifying on June 3rd and 4th and the race on June 7th, exactly why the 2 Zakspeed Porsche GT1 and the Lister Storm are not on it: the Porsches were too slow and the Lister Storm failed scrutineering. "Almost certainly" they couldn't magically correctly predict the Zakspeed Porsche failing in the Pre-Qualifying by 2 tenths to the Nova Nissan R390, could they?
Also the Nissan R390 failing scrutineering at the 1997 pre-qualifying is well documented as well. There will be scrutineering for the race itself as well of course, which explains the Ferrari 333SP failing scrutineering on raceday or shortly before. That obviously doesn't mean there is no scrutineering at the pre-qualifying.

Also the M119B was raced in different configurations (cross-plane and flat-plane) with no declaration as well, so it isn't too far fetched to think other changes happened as well.
And again, I don't dream of anything, I don't even really care too much and it was merely a side note in my original post with no relevance for AMS2, which my post was intended to be for.
I just think there were good indications for it, so please stop making arguments where you ignore 90% of what I said to make them look stronger, I am tired of having to repeat everything over and over. If you don't want to believe it then don't, it has no impact or relevancy for me or AMS2 anyway.

 

I almost like AMS1 but somehow the ffb feels notchy on center using a CSW 2.5. Do you know where I can find some info on how to tune the ffb be better?

 

@Ettore and @br1x92 please take a room for you two lol

Kidding of course
But please don't start a fight for this was an interesting reading from both sides until now I didn't know about that story so it is interesting, maybe we should discuss that in front of a beer

 

Can you tell we're in that dev-update-drought madness that tends to come every month right about now?

 

On the subject of tracks, I can't let this topic go without saying an eventual japanese DLC with Super Formula cars and tracks like Tsukuba, Motegi, Sugo, Fuji would be super awesome... Just saying...

Renato pls hear my prayers

 

Can even get a cool name such as The Rising Sun DLC.

 

Eau-de-cheese?

 

Kind of harsh words for people just having fun speculating.

While we're throwing around ideas of Le Mans, Indy, dirt ovals, and RX, I would guess that most of us have fairly tempered expectations for the next release.

We're probably only getting the CART oval spec, some variation of a NASCAR chassis, 3-4 ovals, and maybe a roval layout if we're lucky. Most likely it'll get drip fed like the other DLC, but we could get it all in one big dump. We're not devs, and most of us don't have the luxury of being in the alpha/beta/etc. like some of the more fortunate members. We can talk amongst ourselves about things we would find as cool additions, even if most of it will never see release.