Automobilista 2 December 2022 Development Update

Better to have a populated lobby on a track and class combination that most players are comfortable with and a majority that actually finishes the 6 lap sprint race, compared to some experts that start a lobby that's deserted and DNF after just 3 minutes.

 

Well of course people base it on there own wants and needs , you wouldn't purchase the title in the first place otherwise would you?
Agree about coming out of early access to early though. Thing is that the people we see here in this forum are generally the patient ones who have been with this SIM for a while and understand the battles Reiza have had with this engine they have inherited , how many others though have purchased and then gave up on it because of various bugs or legacy traits that still crop up , loads of potential users lost .
I have a few friends that also SIM race and none of them play AMS2 because of either being put off by it's reputation or having tried it and not had the experience they expected ( online MP especially) .
For me it's still my go to SIM but luckily I'm not really bothered about multi player as time restrictions don't really allow, saying that though I really feel that unless Reiza sort some of the biggest problems out soon this title is destined to become a very small user base niche title.

 

I didn't say that the game have bad physics. Because it's wrong and a lie. I like a lot the default and custom ffb, how the physics and the weight transfers feels and how the car responds to my inputs. What I say is the perception of lot of players, racing people on other games and opinions from real racing drivers that's it's something wrong about the behaviour of the car, and we know what everybody refers about.

And one thing I have to say, If you play and only play AMS2 your driving style is gradually adapting to the game and how the cars behave, but even so, there are weird lateral slip that doesn't match and I don't find in other sims in whathever car you drive.

I can't say more, because I don't have the words and knownledge to describe better, but if my uncle and my father says the same as other people, and when they play other sim (rfactor and assetto corsa) then the only thing I can hear from their mouth is: omg, this is what driving about. And no because they drive the limit, because for some reason old people with VR have the fear perception and drive carefully.

 

Again this seems to be a completely different sim to me...

Mainly because of this line...

Driving on the limit is where you will find the grip and lateral slip... In AMS2 I find it very easy to just drive the cars as long as the tyres have heat in them compared to other sims... Because there's not as much of a knifes edge to the edge of lateral grip as there is in rF2 or ACC, AMS2 is far closer to AC than other sims... Driving cars on the limit is harder in all sims...

But driving carefully or simply cruising AMS2 is definitely not something I'd describe as hard or unnatural... I find it much easier to cruise in AMS2 than in other sims where the limit of lateral grip is not as well defined as I find in AMS2...

AMS2 with all the bugs and the FFB clipping I find opinions from many sim racers are as worthwhile as my early opinions of ACC before I sorted out the clipping, which was "It's FFB is absolute garbage and there's absolutely no feel to where the limit of grip is"... They aren't experiencing AMS2 as it should be, but whatever bugs or lack of FFB fidelity they are dealing with... Just like me in ACC before I fixed the clipping...

 

Rf2 was released what 10, 12 years ago? It is still patchy and needs probably another 5 or 6 years to have everything fleshed out.

 

I don't speak about force feedback and I don't play ACC.

And well, about to exceeding the limit (without over driving a lot), lot of cars are sliding fest. Bmw m1, dtm, some open wheels etc that on other games simply don't behave the same, as sliding like if the tarmac is dirt or ice. Just drive other sims, not AMS2, and then, after you are used to the game, switch to AMS2 and drive. You find how easy is getting slide and how dificult is recovery from it and how you have to be very carefully to stay on the line in comparison to the other sims about the grip itself and the inputs.

The fact is that in my mind i feel something weird always I switch between games, in both directions for the bad and the good things. Why with my same driving style the car behave sliding like this too easy? I don't know.

I repeat: when I used to play only AMS2, that feel is less evident, but it is still there. And it became less funny because you have to be very confident in what are you doing to don't get the slippery behave all the time. Like the car doesn't have the same capacity to recover and grip again like if I playing rfactor 2 for example. Because i have too an slip if I overdrive in the other sims, but the cars have the capacity to grip and correct the trajectory line.

 

Rfactor 2 is a bug fest and not a good game speaking about the graphics and performance. The only good things it have are the physics, the sound engine and the broken force feedback.

It's normal, rfactor 2 is a fork from old software, with lot of technical debt and poor information about the engine. The original devs are working on the rfactor profesional version, with all the knowledge of the code base. Studio 397 don't have the capacity to fix all the problems rfactor has. In the end, they just do the only thing they know how to do: cars and tracks

 

I stopped judging sims by other sims a while ago. During the worst of Corona times when all VW-plants were shut down, I rented a stock Porsche Cayman GTS and drove it a few times over the Nürburgring-Nordschleife in less then 9 minutes. That's what I use as a reference since then how it should feel. What I can tell you is: ALL SIMS FAIL TO REPLICATE REALITY.

And I particulary hate the Porsche Cayman GT4 representation in AMS2 since then.

 

What do you find off with it? I've driven the car extensively in several sims (AMS2, rF2, ACC, R3E, AC) and the only one that feels clearly different (and wrong) is the R3E version.

 

Closest to the Stock Cayman felt the GT4 in ACC after the last major revision. Only problem there is no Nordschleife in ACC and the GP track is not part of public trackdays, or any other track that is in reasonable reach for me (Bilster Berg & Oschersleben). I have no experience at all with Raceroom.

 

If people want to take a sneak peek at real vs sim, why not go to your local kart track and then compare that to the karts in the sim?

It is a great way to judge a sim physics. Sure it will only be comparable to karts and you can't generalize the result to F1 cars, but imho it is a much more relevant comparison than using other simulators as parameter (which makes ZERO sense).

In my comparison, the AMS2 rental karts are awful and nothing like what I experienced irl. However the 2 Stroke AMS2 kart feels close to my experience with the rental karts I tried irl, even though they are not the same. Except that now for whatever reason Reiza decided to limit the minimum brake pressure to 90%, which makes braking an awful experience with G29 pedals.

 

If you do not have proper FFB you cannot talk about physics... Period... All of what you describe could be down to the FFB being wrong... Not just being on a bugged version of the game which I still suspect...

rF2 is even more of a slidefest then AMS2, especially with the S397 cars where the fastest way for years was to unhook the rear ARB and lower the tyre pressures so you could slide around the bends faster...

AMS2 and rF2 are very similar in feel when you compare to the top mods made by others in rF2 to cars in ASM2... AMS2 is far better than the S397 stuff though... The default set ups are just terrible in AMS2, once tuned in though, much like many rF2 mods that have terrible default set ups, they are a joy to drive because of the way the physics talk with the FFB... ACC and AC do not have that on anywhere near the same level, AC is better than ACC for FFB due to the community now, but neither can hold a candle to AMS2 or rF2 for physics IMHO...

This is exactly my worst case scenario for AMS2 as well... As unlike ISI, SMS didn't have a bloody clue what to do with the Madness engine so everything Reiza has done has been learned from a very much worse starting point... Which at the same time gives me hope for AMS2 because I never saw the current physics model being as good as it is now because of what was the pCARS series...

 

I drive rental karts and I have a friend who has been racing karts for many years.
Well, the first words he say when sat on my cockpit and try to run some laps was: There is something weird, I don't remember the karts over react too much from my steering inputs and left so much on corners.

A few laps later we started to get more comfortable with the kart and didn't suffer so much from excessive drifting. In the end, as we didn't have an immediate comparison the kart felt very natural both in handling and on the gas.

In general the physics and handling feel natural, and like any kind of car in reality, you have to adapt, I understand that the same thing happens in every simulator, and within it the coherence that is kept between all the cars.

What are the main differences from the game driving at same speeds? I will try the ACC version tomorrow. Another question: how is the real ffb from the cayman gts? More like the acc or like the AMS2? Just curiousity.

 

If you look at it that way there are almost only GT3 lobbies left (because they are the most popular), which I think is a shame. I don't mind racing GT3 from time to time but for over ten years this class has been seen almost exclusively online. Where are the Group C lobbies? Where are the 70s and 80s F1 lobbies?

Based on that multiplayer makes little sense or fun for me right now. And that doesn't just apply to AMS2 but also to sims like AC. Even in Iracing it's hard for me to find interesting series because everything is mostly about GT cars.

 

The cold hard truth is that those cars you like will never be massively popular, and if you want to enjoy them in a multiplayer environment on a regular basis, you better join a league that is dedicated to run them and recruit drivers like you that will be interested on them.

Many leagues are awaiting for online improvements to come so they can implement AMS2 on their competitions. That several GT3 servers will also spawn as public lobbies is a non factor for this.

 

I think it would be helpful if you created a gameclip in a few cars and upload it. I think that jtortosen could point out quickly in those clips what he means by that lateral sliding.
I see it in almost every clip I see of AMS2 and it is clearly different than other sims.
With other sims it seems like you have much much more lateral grip. While in AMS2 it seems like you lose lateral grip pretty quickly. Yes you can recover from it and in that sense, it is easy for cruising. But I suppose in reallife you have more lateral grip and if you go over the line it gets very risky and that is why it is much more difficult because you have to react quickly. In AMS2 it seems to me that this lateral grip is not really high and that means that you drift far more or have to straighten your wheel faster.
It would be interesting if Reiza could adjust lateral grip (also the deforming on the tire and its effect) like on a slider and let the user find out what the best feeling is (with regards to reality). I think that would help a lot to correct people's problems with the physics.

 

Here is my vid of an onboard lap with the Merc DTM at Galeao. It was a practice race, my best lap on it, it was on lap 13 of a 15 lap test event. There is little steering input because I had the setup at 26 degrees. I now use it at 18 degrees and it's much less sensitive than what you see there, so bear it in mind.

 

To me it's more to do with jtortosen's set up than anything, same goes for all the videos complaining of the physics, something is wrong on their end...

So if anything is to help this problem it'd be them making a video showing us their various settings (FFB profile and in game car set up pages including what has been saved) and what they consider to be wrong with AMS2's handling... And even going as far as showing us when it was last given a clean reinstall...

Reiza and many others already put out videos of AMS2 at it's best... We are trying to fix a problem here...

In other sims to me it's far more of a problem if you have to adjust, especially on throttle, which to me means that there's more lateral grip in AMS2... In AMS2 the grip is there to be able to adjust 80% more than ACC for example... Because when I have to adjust in ACC it's game over 95% of the time... In AMS2 I lose time if I'm sliding but there's a much higher chance of catching it if my set up is good... I used ACC as an example because it's got the most extreme case of this for me atm...

 

I think it would be helpful to post a video to help you two talk about the same thing. Because I have a feeling that there is some misunderstanding.
No I think that AMS2 has less optimum lateral grip, it gives up lateral grip quite fast, and then you keep some grip for a long band but that means you are sliding. But in other sims you have a shorter band where you can go over the line which is why it is harder to recover from because when the grip is lost it is gone and harder to recover from but it doesn't give up its optimal grip easily. In other sims the grip stays longer before giving up but then when it is gone it is harder to deal with it.
It is a characteristic of the sim imo. It hasn't anything to do with FFB and that imo. That is also why it would be interesting if you post a video because the chance is high that he sees what he means, and that would exclude FFB and fresh install, etc...

 

There is something about that camera that is also a problem with giving the sensation of floating.
Look for example at this (

) and see how the camera moves and how much more planted it looks. I think the camera oscillations are too great of amplitude. I think they should be less of amplitude and have a higher frequency in AMS2.
But so long if most users are happy then that is good by me. I am just trying to help. See ya all.