Automobilista 2 March 2023 Development Update

Thats last part is a sort of low blow to the modding community, because last we were told the indycar deal was off for the foreseeable future.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I and everyone else would have loved to have an indycar official pack, or even the generic car. But Renato said the discussions had halted, there was no deal for the foreseeable future, and a generic IR18 wasn't going to be released. So the community stepped in and made their own. I don't see a problem with that, if anything, the only person you can be mad at is indycar.

Had they kept their month shut, they would have effectively gotten a free indycar game made by people who obviously love the sport. Even when they stepped in (because remember, they came to Reiza and reopened talks) they could have had a incredibly popular official DLC pack in a game clearly grooming itself for the job. But instead they screwed Reiza, themselves, and indycar fans in general by dangling and then pulling back a carrot. (Then they dumped burning gasoline on the whole issue with Iracing)

Thats indycar for you in a nutshell. They ask, "how many times do I have to shoot myself in the foot before someone signs a check or I pass out of blood loss?" Thats why last night I was so emotional, because WE CAME THIS CLOSE TO A GOOD INDYCAR GAME!

If and when Reiza comes out with more indycar content, I'm going to buy it, day 1, no question. But until then, you can't get mad at the community running with the ball after it was knocked out of your hands. After all, isn't that how Reiza got started with CART Factor?

 

And it's back in the downloads at RD... So... Maybe the source material of the mod was cleared up?

 

I've worked on a small part of the mod.
The model was not ripped, we even modeled the latest 2023 details like the attenuator in the back.

 

Thanks for your amazing work!!

 

You have an overly-romanticized view of reality. When the MSG Indycar game finally comes out, which will be utterly unsatisfying to you, me and most of the people on this board, how much do you want to bet it outsells AMS 2? I won't bet against it. That's the only thing that matters to marketing people. If the Indycar marketing department thought they way we do, they wouldn't have talked to MSG in the first place, but that's all history now.

Also, you seem to fundamentally misunderstand licensing rights. Just because someone is not charging money for stolen assets or IP or brands/marks, doesn't mean it is any less illegal. The party holding the licenses will always argue that their sales would have been higher had the illegal/unlicensed product not been available in the first place. Would Reiza sell more or less Indycar DLC if the KAOS mod did not exist? Would MSG (and therefore Indycar) sell more or fewer of their game if the KAOS mod did not exist? Would Reiza be more or less likely to work on a generic version of a modern Indycar if the KAOS mod did not exist?

The only part you are focusing on, which I agree, is that Indycar miscalculates that letting Reiza (and iRacing) do their version of the Indycar in parallel to MSG's game somehow results in fewer overall sales of Indycar licensed sim vehicles. We know the sales would not cannibalize each other because the customers for each of those three do not have a significant cross-over. But even if they did, those ultra-keeners might buy the Indycar in more than sim. Too bad MSG convinced Indycar of the opposite (and if it was an easy sell, then shame on Indycar), but again, that's history now....

 

I really want to reply to this, because I think you completely overlooked the point I was trying to make, but honestly I'm tired of debating today.

But to make this extremely TLDR

Yes I agree MSG could sell more than AMS 2. If they do or not depends on the quality of the game. But in the end, that's all indycar wants is money.

I think I have a better understanding of IP law than most. (Granted its by no means perfect.) I know Indycar has full rights over their brand, property and image and could shut down Indycar mod makers at any time. But they don't, because it's free advertising and it's hard to prove damages, like every other brand, series, or manufacturer represented in the world of modding.

Does the existence of a free mod hamper the potential sells of a similar product? Debatable. Of course you can make the argument that it will, but historically speaking, the presence of a free mod doesn't effect future sales of a similar product.

Cart Factor Extreme for Rfactor and later AMS 1 did not hamper the sales of Racing USA parts 2 or 3 of AMS 2 despite the fact it was free and featured all the offical cars and drivers of the CART series.

F1 2022 was not effected by the F1 2022 skin pack for the Formula Ultimate 2022 on race department.

MSG's indycar game, will likely not be effected by Kaos' mod of AMS2, nor would any future AMS 2 Indycar related DLC.

None of these things has anything to with my original point, but like I said, I'm tired and I have to finish my shift at work, so I'll just drop it past this.

 

How do you know that?
(Genuine question, not a dig at you.)

 

The obvious answer is most of it's sales was probably bundled into the season pass.

However, Past that I would argue the lack of any representation from any major game studio of this era or series of racing would attract more potential customers then a mod for a older game.

Factor in the lack of a single player focused oval racing game from the market for several years, The convenience of buying and installing it with one button press, And the resurgence and popularity of Indy car racing and motorsports in general in the United States leads me to believe anyone who tried cart Factor probably also bought racing usa parts 1 and 2.

To put that another way, I doubt anyone avoided racing usa because of Cart Factor. People like shiny new things.

 

Now, I could be completely wrong but I really doubt I am. Otherwise the video game industry would have just utterly annihilated modding as soon as they could.

 

That's different to saying it won't have an impact on sales though. Even if your DLC attracts more customers than a mod for an older game, if the mod didn't exist you might attract even more customers and get even more sales.

 

There exist modern IndyCar mods for Assetto Corsa and also modern F1 mods, and also modern Nascar mods, all with real liveries, all perfectly legal. Hell i made the Nascar 2022 season liveries for AMS2 and i wasn't hit with any lawsuits. Yet ?

 

To get even better, and have the main F1 circuits (over the decades), I think there would be few missing.

At least 3 more versions of Monaco ( Azurre ), maybe: Monaco (62-71), Monaco(76-85), Monaco (86-97) to join what we already have.

And to give it a special shine: Le Castellet(Paul Ricard): (71-85) and (86-89).About other important circuits of other categories, it would be a separate chapter.

And about new cars, as it is a Brazilian company that is emphasizing mainly historic cars and categories, I could mention:Copersucar FD04 (from driver 1) and add the Copersucar F5A (most successful from the Brazilian team),
Formula Super Vê ( hugely successful category between 1974-1978 ),
Division 4 (with the national prototypes when the imported ones were banned, between (1972-1974),
Division 3 (Between 1972-1978, before the emergence of Stock Car, we had: Chevrolet Opala, Ford Maverick, Dodge Dart, VW Passat, VW Brasília, VW 1300, VW 1600, Ford Corcel, Dodge 1800 Polara, Chevrolet Chevette, Fiat 147),
Formula 2 (1971, to recreate the Brazilian season at the reopening of Interlagos),
Mil Milhas Brasileiras from 1970 (Alfa GTA, GTAm, Ferrai 512, Alfa P33, Porsche 908, Bino Mark 2 to recreate this national iconic season),
Mil Milhas Brasileiras 1966/1967, we would have several important cars, national and imported, to name a few: Berlineta Willys Interlagos and Bino Mark 2 (Equipe Willys), Dacon Karmann-Guia, Equipe Jolly (Alfa GTA, GTAm), GT Malzoni and DKW Wemag (DKW ), Fitti-Porsche, Lotus Europe, Porsche 906, Simca,
Finally, the Mil Milhas Brasileiras 156/1957/1958, introducing the famous "Carreteras", winners of the first races and other cars of the time.

 

The existence of modern F1 mods for AC doesn't seem to negatively impact the sales of the official F1 games.

 

I look at that quite the opposite.

Think about going to a restaurant and being served by a 5 star chef. He only makes 1 thing but its delicious, and it's called Cart Factor.

You aren't going to eat that one meal and swear off ever eating from that chef again are you? No of course not. So 10 years later, when the restaurant has grown to a chain called Automohlista 2, and now there's all sorts of fantastic dishes on the menu, like Brazilian racing legends, and the Historic track pack.

You probably aren't going to ignore what used to be your old favorite dish reimagined as Racing USA part 2 and 3 right?

 

That's the point--you could be.

Is it likely? Not if you are doing it as a hobby, because a legal suit will have only one of the two reasons to pursue you (extracting penalty money and getting you to stop).

I support your work 100%. The fact that a hobbyist would lovingly recreate fan-favourite liveries should be celebrated by the license holders, not punished. I would pay you if I was NASCAR or F1. But we know the reality of how they think and act to protect their ability to monetize anything and everything related to their assets and organizations. Again, if I can pretend to be in a NASCAR 2022 stock car in AMS 2 using the Brazilian stock car am I more or less likely to buy the NASCAR game from MSG? No matter how many times I would explain to them that I would give up sim racing ahead of using an arcade piece of crap console-focused bug-fest game from MSG, they won't care. They only see dollar signs and unit sales and exclusivity is always better than non-exclusivity for these types of people.

Taking assets from other titles or modders is a whole different ball game. If the game is off the market, less concern, but never zero. If it's still being sold/monetized, then no one should be surprised if they get a message from a lawyer representing the owners/creators of that asset.

Indycar will find out about the new mod for AMS 2...and I assume they will not understand any of the subtleties of boot files hassles or any other factor. It looks like an Indycar game in a screen shot (probably better, actually, than the real one) and that's all that will be needed for them to decide.

I already explained my position on Indycar marketing prowess above, so won't repeat here.

 

Again, you are cherry-picking based on emotion and logic. Neither of these affects the law. It is very clear what is and what is not an infraction when it is an intended copy of something (the actual Indycars as seen on TV or at a live race). Even "generic" vehicles that are similar to real ones cannot have too close a resemblance or they will be punished. The obvious example is Reiza's various historic top level open-wheel series that cannot look too much like (liveries) or be named too similarly to a certain litigious racing organization's properties.

 

peg your pardon mates, but this thread is called
Automobilista 2 March 2023 Development Update

not Track/Car Whishlist thread
not Bash MSG and Indy thread
not Modding Community thread

please come back to topic and if you wish, create or use an existing thread with a specific topic

Thank You

 

Agreed! There is a modding thread already. Thanks for the friendly reminder

 

Never mind someone answered

 

These flat earthers man...

Barely worth the time it takes to exhale at their ignorance of the world...

Anyway... Whose enjoying Bathurst 83? I haven't found a combination there I do not like...