Automobilista 2 V1.5 Physics Development Update

Thing is, many cars on version 1.4.* were awesome to drive, with very little flaws or imprecisions. DTM Group A cars are a great example of this, and those never had the updated physics prior to this release.

So if any car shows a step back in 1.5, even if it is because of recalibration and tweaking of parameters due to the bug fixing you mentioned, it's worth of a mention.

To me, it's worrysome to read about users who loved driving on this game prior to this update, and now don't. And that includes people producing mods. And while there is always an adaptation time when the change is a big one, it cannot be solely assigned to that.

Coming home today. Can't wait.

 

These comparisons..these simulators are older, curious to see how the game will be in 1 or 2 years...

 

This highlights some of the issue someone else mentioned previously. Objectively the SIM is now behaving in a better way in regards to simulation. As highlighted in the dev update there was significant bugs in the simulation.

Some people got used to that feeling and maybe enjoyed it more than the current physics implementation.

It all comes down to what someone wants out of the sim, the most realistic Vs the most fun Vs something in between.

 

What matters is how it is right here and now, because we paid for it now, some even years ago during early access. Sure i might becurious for future things too but i don't want something "broken now and maybe fixed X amount of time later" because by the "later" point my patience will run out, and i will be out too.

Plenty of people i used to race with over the last year have quit the game due to there being issues like the (hopefully fixed) pitstops not changing tires bug, disconnects and not being able to reconnect anymore, bugged shadows still being an issue since the PC2 release being a distracting obstruction, now there seems to also be a physics bug that throws the car around in corners that people reported with the V8 Supercars, and some cars having odd behavior too, which if people are using in a league and the problems now ruined it for them, would you blame people for leaving ?

 

Racing can be both fun and realistic, but i also feel that super difficult to the point of your wheel almost breaking from the stress ≠ more realistic.
IndyCar drivers have been saying they have a lot of grip, control, it is very forgiving and easy to keep the oversteer slide through a corner. I would say the way the F-USA 23 behaves now is a great representation of that.

It is easy to get a handle of, but difficult to master and keep pushing to the absolute limit. If they made you spin out all the time if you pushed a bit more that might be more difficult sure, but realistic ? Not so much.

 

What matters for the end user is the final output. A theoretically better physics model is worth nothing if the end result when driving is off the mark. iRacing and its "rubber simulated down to molecular levels" is another example for this.

Of course, the improvements to the model were needed if they were causing unintended mix of data. But again, if the end result does not feel well, specially compared to previous versions, it's worth a mention.

 

So, no, since you and others expect and want complex things to be resolved yesterday, i have nothing else to say, since unrealistic expectations always generate frustrations in the present.

I don't blame anyone for leaving either, since we have a saying here in Brazil, that the door is always useful in the house, would be something like don't let the door hit you on your way out..

 

You misunderstood what i have said. I have expectations of things being fixed in the NEAR future, not in two years time. For example when i reported the pitstop tires not changing glitch, it has been resolved in 4 months time. Still not ideal but hey, it got fixed eventually.

Of course there will always be bugs and unpexpected issues but at the same time things being broken for literal years and people being seemingly alright with it also speaks to the meteorically low expectations some people have.

 

It's inevitable that on any game/sim/product you will have different opinions and tastes. Most people will compare one sim to another, because most of us haven't had the experience to drive racing cars. That's why for me personally, I enjoy a good, fun and immersive driving experience.

I wanna feel like I am driving a racing car like the real pros do on those onboards, I wanna feel and enjoy how it was to wrestle a vintage F1 car through historic racetracks. I know the more tech savvy user like the sims to be as real as possible, but as said a million times, at the end of the day these are simulators that aim to sell people like us the feeling of being a racing driver and be fun at the same time.

In my opinion AMS2 is the best at giving me this feeling, something as simple as the FFB simulating the wheel being heavier when the car is stationary is the little touches AMS2 does that other sims don't. Would love to have the sound quality of RF2 but the sim is still evolving and I am definitely in for the long haul.

I haven't even been able to test all the cars, but I can say I am enjoying the sim more than before with the ones I have driven. Just some issues with the braking in the high performance F1 cars that I did not have in the beta, but nothing that lowering the brake pressure can't fix.

 

Yes, but remember some of the broken items were broken from Day 1 of PC, stayed broken through PC2 and were never addressed until AMS 2 now. Somehow, in all that history, PC and PC 2 had a zillion times more sales and active users online than AMS and AMS 2. Unfortunately, there aren't that many of us who care deeply about simulation accuracy and authenticity of controls, behaviours, etc. The trade-off for having only one dev who is as obsessed as us and not paying $1,000 for the software is to be patient while things get fixed. It's frustrating, but the alternatives have their problems, too, which I won't elaborate since we already have too much discussion about the pros and cons of other sims here

 

Yeah, it reminds me of a certain franchise...

 

Sharing some constructive feedback: I would really appreciate if the brakes could get a deep dive in the near future, now that the tyre physics are in a satisfying state! I still think (my opinion as someone that merely plays racing games, not as an expert) that the brakes in AMS2 are overly sensitive to lock ups, and it still relies too much on lowering the pressures to 85% or even below. I consistently find myself having to brake super early compared to other sims because the car just doesn't stop in time for the turns, ABS/TC are really aggressive, removing a ton of the stopping power, and the ones without it lock up almost immediately with the car spinning out of control. It somewhat reminds me of the brakes in Forza Motorsport 7 (in which I used to play competitively), where you could only apply a certain amount of brake pressure (about 75% on the pedals) before they were guaranteed to lock and not work at all. I found that a quick way to remediate this issue is to move the bias forward to extreme values, as from my experience the rear tyres are usually the ones causing the most issues. I'm not too sure if running a brake bias of 80/20 is something most series do irl, but it does feel a bit wrong to me.

Again, not an expert, also not a real driver, just sharing my opinion on the matter - would love if someone more knowleadgeable of the topic could share some thoughts on this, specially if they feel I'm onto something! I find it super difficult to be confident in the brakes in AMS2 compared to other sims I play (mainly AC and RF2), I'm always having to run some cursed combination of brake pressure and brake bias for it to work, and even then I still have to brake earlier than I wish. (But I am a late braker, so maybe it's just entirely my fault )

 

Most definitely default every car having brake pressure set to 90 is overkill. With every open wheel car i reduce it between 80 - 85.

 

I guess I'm the odd ball out because I put every pressure at 100% and just modulate my brake pedal.

 

Many have been "corrected" already as part of the 1.5 updates. But agree, braking is the final frontier to be addressed now that all the other fundamentals are sorted. Some cars still lock too easily; some have too little braking performance. But the list of baddies is shrinking fast and I suspect that the team is already well aware of this and is addressing it, car-by-car, as fast as they can.

 

Same here. 100% brake pressure and 50-58% front brake bias, with a few exceptions such as some open-wheelers where a single lockup would strip away 25% of the thread. When I test on gamepad, though, I mostly stick to using the default setups.

 

I do use 100% for every single car. Gives me the impression that more often than not, those who need to lower the pressure are not using LC pedals, and that is a factor, as you tend to use more input range in non-LC pedals.

Did my first laps on 1.5 this afternoon, driving Stock Cars on a hot and green track. First impressions were very positive, those cars's issues of the past seem to be completely gone. Need to spend more time on more combos to come up with conclusions though.

 

Pai, after you get the opportunity to try the V1.5 Group A cars, I will be genuinely gobsmacked if you find them to be a disappointment compared to the previous version. I enjoy the cars more than ever and find no downsides to the upgrades in Group A.

 

If you set a standard of grip outside of a BETA or Early Access period you have set an expectation of an evolution of that grip profile...

Seems to me there's far too much content for a small team to make such massive changes to the physics... Both car and track... It's a huge undertaking that I think a lot of people have taken lightly and think that we are ready for things like a career mode when there's obviously years of development to come before the AI can be tuned to the player side physics and the title is ready for a career mode...

There's either a lot of very broken cars with incorrect physics, like the Sauber C9 with no turbo feel and too much grip or the modern F1 cars with 80s qualifying tyres that last 2 laps... Or there's bugs causing people to have very different experiences... Like Green track conditions being faster than heavy rubber... Which can really throw off the expected experience with a car...

With hex coding it's very easy to make a mistake and not see it in the code easily... It's far easier to catch that mistake in game via testing... A lot of time it's as simple as looking at the set up page... Like the car that had incorrect ride heights left and right... So I understand why it happens, there just needs to be better processes so this kind of stuff doesn't slip through to the public release... Which means a larger Quality assurance team...

There's a lot that this fix would of made better, most notably FFB, which is the main reason people couldn't feel flatspots or felt the game was floaty or that some cars were undrivable...

Nothing was undrivable before and AMS2 had amazing feel and potential... It just needed refinement... The FFB just had issues with the sidewall bug for a lot of people, which because each car has it's own FFB params on top of different physics calculations going into those params the FFB can change from car to car... Hence you should act like FFB is part of a cars set up...

This bug fix seems to have caused a massive shift in the way grip needs to be calculated in order to return to that amazing feel... And as someone who has modded for other titles there's already a massive difference in the way grip is calculated in the Madness engine anyway (at least when working with aero on the old tyres)... Which could also be throwing off what Reiza attempted to do...

I'd love to get more seat time and be absolutely sure about the various claims people are making, but I'm inclined to take those who critique certain aspects more seriously over those who just blindly praise... As a modder it's something I've had to do a lot, sift through feedback, so I can read a lot of hyperbole even if it's laced with trigger words and find what they are trying to say that is needed to be improved... As in the end it'll make my own experience of my work better...

 

Considering my post just above yours, I look forward to it