Automobilista 2 V1.5 Physics Development Update

First Look: GTR Revival Shows In-Engine Screenshot

 

Pretty bemusing how he makes the mental leap that anything that they're doing themselves is obviously more 'advanced' and better than well-proven physics models, even when no one is judging those existing models for being out-dated or too simplistic.

Considering the history of the madness engine, and how Reiza still had to correct numerous fundamental issues in the code (As in, actual errors in the physics modeling; most prominently in diff and tire spring rates), I wouldn't be so sure that anything being sold as more 'advanced' is going to immediately also be better. (for whatever that subjective qualification means to you)

It will take a lot of work, bug fixing, validating and fine-tuning before your 'new and more advanced' physics engine is actually giving you reasonable responses that are also meaningfully different and better than what is currently available. Just look how long it's taking for the madness engine, and that one is only partially new. (still mostly ISI-based)

Another thing that in my experience ISI-based sims have done better than average is the responsiveness of the games; having low input latency and generally a 'high fidelity' experience. (which AMS2 also excels at imo) Considering that GTR Revival is supposedly going to use unreal engine 5, and gauging from the responsiveness (and general performance) of ACC and the Rennsport beta, I'm not getting my hopes up for an improvement in that regard...

 

Are there any plans to introduce less forgiving set ups for the cars, I like to spend my time driving not messing around with set ups. A choice between at least two set ups would bring a lot to the sim.

As a side note congratulations on the 1.5 update, excellent work from the Reiza team.

 

Now I think of it the only other time I have ever really noticed feedback through the wheel on my daily is if I have been driving on corrugated dirt roads. Some people must be driving on rubbish roads if they are feeling much come through the steering wheel. I have been driving for 35 years and can't say that steering wheel feedback has ever really been something I have noticed road noise being communicated through to me.

 

What's funny to me about feedback through the wheel:

• Sim-racers say they want less of it.
• Real race-car drivers want all they can get (Their life and livelihood depend on it).
• Automotive journalists often highlight it as being an important attribute of any good performance car.

It's all about "feeling more connected" to the car, whether real or virtual. Goals may differ though, performance vs immersion, etc.

 

Good or better FFB does not mean I want effects in the Steering column that do not happen there... like on power, rear axle, powertrain vibrations and rear tire slip.

Example. The very clean FFB in ACC allows for a better feel what is happening to your steerings axle and front tires. Subtle nuances in Grip loss are tangible and not over saturated by other effects.

I guess the explanation why some users want more "feel" in the steering axis is due to the fact that most of us are used to front wheel driven cars where you have a lot of torque on power that changes the steering stiffness, or makes steering light in high speed high rpm power understeer situations.

But: I dont want a Porsche 911 in a sim behave like a Golf GTI FFB-wise.

 

You sir are very lucky to have such nice roads. I can definitely feel subtle vibrations from my steering wheel every day. I can even feel different road textures, like when going from a concrete bridge to the tarmac again.

 

Even with the servo and suspension doing their thing I can definitely feel it when running over rubble, tiny twigs and small irregularities and changes in the road (Audi Q-series). I wouldn't go as far and say the car is talking to me because for obvious reasons I'm not anywhere near the limit, and at speeds well below what many everyday cars can safely manage we rely almost entirely on visual inputs.

 

Pretty simple solution already provided by Reiza: Default FFB profile. Only the Default+ has the extra feedback "flavours" that you do not want. If you are really into minimalism, you can delete the custom file in your documents game folder and the game will create a new one that has the fewest effects. Just pick Custom profile (and do not load a "real" custom file from any of the usual sources).

 

I love all the YT and forum comments about how impossible the cars are to spin or how others only understeer. It is obvious that the authors are either not using Authentic settings (i.e., they have global assists on) and then where necessary turning off vehicle-specific assists, or, they are just complete incompetents. There is not a vehicle in the game that I can't ham-fisted spin or drive off the edge of the track clumsily no matter how much steering input I provide or how hard I mash the brakes.

As always, we know every car is not perfect or even fully optimized by Reiza, but NONE are so far off reality (compared to any other sim available to us) that exaggerated claims can be made.

 

A few users have the feeling that there is possibly something a bit off with the aero model. There doesn't seem to be too much gained in reducing aero on a car and at least for some classes, the topspeeds they reached in racetrim can't even be reached in a practice setting with extreme setups. Example for this are all GT1s, where the real top speeds from Hockenheim in 1998 are about 15km/h higher than what seems possible in AMS2.

 

this acceleration (flat foot) is what I’d expect in a gt3 car not an 800+ C9

https://vimeo.com/851098089

 

In the spirit of talking about classes that I think are in a good spot, I personally think the classic FUSAs are all really good, they seem grippy but deadly if you overpush them, also the Dirt cars, all of them, also seem to be in a really good spot, GT4's seem to be great aswell, that does not mean there can't be improvements but I feel like those classes are great.

But on the other hand, like many have pointed out, a lot of cars suffer from similar issues, maybe its just me but I don't think I should be able to drift a GT car with aero and slick tyres, I feel like you can get the rear to step out correctly on alot of cars but then very easily you can maintan a drift through multiple corners without issue. I tried doing this in GT3's, GT1's, brazilian Stock cars and Porsche cup's.

Maybe I'm oversimplyfing it but it feels like's there's too much handling on the edge of grip?

 

Absolutely, the reason the sensations are mixed is because the wheels are the only thing touching the surface, if you feel it in your 'butt' then it stands to reason that the whole chasis is transferring those vibrations, also to the steering column.

As I've said before, I don't want my wheel to be 'realistic', I want it to fill in the information that would normally be felt via other forces/stimuli or are normally more subtle.

Take brake lock for example, it is obvious when you do that in a real car, if you are on a tarmac or gravel you will feel the kicks of grip going and coming back and on ice/snow you can feel it go light/smooth. The most informative thing in real life when gauging braking for me is the deceleration and the Gs it creates, I lack that when sim racing so I want the lock vibration to compensate, I also turn tyre squeal up if possible. The feeling of the 'weight' or movement of the body is another thing which is amplified and is highly useful but not 'realistic'.

Sims are getting more and more impressive, but until we can jack in to the matrix and drive, realism is a lofty goal given the physics involved.

 

If sims were tuned precisely as real race cars, with actual edgy hot slick tire performance, about 10% of customers would be able to enjoy using them. The other 90% would be spinning off on every second corner. Partly because of lack of g-forces and partly because it is just very challenging to drive that last 2% or 3% of performance on the edge, hence why so few of us could do it for a living in real life.

 

If you look at top drift cars, they have massive wings and slicks.

Again, i am not defending Reiza or single cars. But appears people are falling in the old trops of "i should be spinning imediatly if the cars get sideways".

Believe me, as a physics guy, its a dream to have a tire or physics engine that allows you to make a pointy grippy car that can still drift and slide without tankslapping or spinning you imediatly.

Doesn't mean you are going to be quick, or that your tires will last long.

 

<trolling>At 0:30, 0:37, 5:10, and 6:01 you can clearly see that the car appears to be rotating around its center. I believe something has to be fundamentally wrong in the physics of these cars!</trolling>

On a more serious note: There are just as many examples of that not being the case, which demonstrates the complexity and situational dependence of how cars handle.

 

Renato, and also other Reiza staff.

Firstly, the caveat that clearly there are many updates and milestones ahead of AMS2, so this is more of an “interested in your thoughts” post regarding the longer term future.

Let’s call a mythical new racing sim in the future AMS3 for simplicity!
Would you consider the breadth and scope of trying to simulate / emulate so many cars, tracks and tires to have been a hindrance to the development so far of AMS2?
For this mythical new sim, would your lives as developers and the satisfaction of the community benefit from narrowing down the scope of what you’re trying to achieve a little?
There’s a part of me that loves the diverse range of content, but also a part of me that thinks there’s possibly too much choice now.
From purely a physics point of view, this seems like it will be a huge time consuming ongoing task trying to keep all these attributes updated with each and every evolution of physics/FFB that comes along.