OSW Help Needed with FFB

That's very strange behavior. My system doesn't do that.
(SimuCube / Small Mige / SinCos Encoder).

BTW, I noticed you are asking for help with RR settings for the OSW. I'll try to update my settings in the S3 forum thread soon.

 

Thanks for the info.
I got the FFB in RR at an acceptable level, but not the way it was with my Fanatec V2.
In AMS it is fine, except for that strange behavior I have when standing still. And I literally tried all settings...
In rF2 the feel is amazing...and also AC is pretty much OK (much better than the Fanatec V2).

 

Try change these values in your controller.ini
FFB steer force neutral range="0.02500"
FFB steer force neutral function="1.00000"

Edit, I have an SimuCube (and Biss-c encoder), it help for me

 

Thanks for thinking along. But sadly that did not work either.
The issue is very weird. When I stop the car on track, the steering wheel is still, centered. But a light touch initiate a violent movement to the left or right. Reaching the bumpstop, it stays there...

 

Are you using any of the Direct Input effects (Right side of SimuCube settings)? AFAIK, AMS doesn't use those but, maybe something odd can happen (?)

 

Nope, all at 0%

 

OK, problem solved, though the solution did not make much sense in my head at first. Someone at Granity forum suggested to reverse the FFB in game.
I had it at -100% in game because that was what I needed with my previous Fanatec V2 setup. Only a few cars needed FFB reversed in Real Feel plugin. So I made no changes when I moved to OSW.
When the issue showed up, one of the first things I tried was reversing in Real Feel plugin, but that did what it says: reverse FFB and it was not possible to keep the car on track. Moreover, the issue was still present.
I now followed the tip: changing FFB direction in game from -100 to +100, then reversed FFB in Real Feel plugin and the issue is gone, while FFB is still OK while driving.

Anyway, thanks guys, very happy to say it works as intended now...

 

hi Spin,

i recently got a vrs dfp pro.

ive sunk in more than 2 days into this but nowhere close to sort it.

ive experienced everything your have mentioned in your posts. looking to see if you have been able to find solutions to 2 problems by way of editing a file or other way ....

1. After a turn the wheel wants to return back to center with lots of URGENCY/FORCE.
2. when braking in to a corner a additional force is felt and the steering becomes excessively HARD.

have you been able to resolve this ?

Thanks.

 

Hi Kirti. I just saw this now, so sorry. I also made videos about it:

This video shows it pretty brutally especially the 2nd half of the vid:

This vid is more in-depth - 3 different DD FFB settings but, maybe, doesn't show it as brutally:

Although the issue is worse / more exaggerated with some games, it generally still happens with any game. It's definitely not perceived to be as bad (but still not right) with something like Live For Speed and Netkar Pro (or Assetto Corsa...sometimes). I think it's due to how their physics engines (including but not limited to just the tyre model) handle power wheelspin and general oversteer. They are much more controllable, much less on/off, the way the "slide energy" & wheelspin & slip-angles increase/stop/decrease are incredibly more natural, progressive (in an organic way, not in a arcadey way), and controllable which can also be noticeably felt in the FFB behavior during those moments.

However, even regardless of the game, the "auto-correction" steering in games - I think this is called SAT - is wayyy disproportionately over-powered compared to most/all of the other forces. I think this is due to how FFB fundamentally works (regardless of game, wheel base motor, etc.).

The force can be much less disproportionately over-powering if a game allows you to specifically tweak individual forces like Dirt 4. D4 allows reducing just specifically the SAT force. However:
1) that means the wheel will also be very light to your own steering inputs too which is not good. What needs to happen is a sort of 1-way SAT force adjustment which only makes the "auto-correction" steering forces much lighter while not affecting the forces you are applying to the car.
2) a specific setting like that can usually only be adjusted if the game is using "canned" FFB (which I don't personally mind at all).

Something like game-telemetry FFB adjustments, like the Accuforce wheel is capable of, could be a very powerful thing to try and combat this issue. I mentioned it many times in the official SimCube thread over the years

I was playing with the FIAT Abarth in Assetto Corsa. My friend has the exact same car, same model version, everything. We made the steering weight / forces - in terms of our own inputs - decently similar to his real car. Well, as soon as the rear wheels lost grip and got into a decent slide, the "auto-correction" steering was wayyy too aggressive and strong and absolutely NOTHING - not even remotely close by a million years - to how his car is. In order to make the "auto-correction" steering similar to his real life car, we had to lower the FFB forces so low that you could almost drive with your pinky. Again, because the "auto-correction" steering forces are so incredibly disproportionately over-powered compared to most/all other forces.


Anyways, there's my long-winded rant/thoughts/discoveries. If you'd still like help with FFB settings, let me know. There are ways to sort of, kind of, band-aid the issue...somewhat.

 

Outside of a particular games' FFB, physics, etc., I think the problem is 4-fold:

1) All our FFB motors/wheels/servos use position-speed control rather than true torque-control. They try to get torque but from speed and position. For true torque control, I believe, the FFB system would have to know the weight of the wheel and other sorts of parameters which would make it all much more difficult to implement for home use.

2) FFB in all games is still using Microsoft's Direct Input which is from the 1990s and hasn't progressed since then (or since the very early 2000s) and was never designed to be used with powerful, high-performance motors/servos. This alone brings lots of limitations with what can be done with FFB tech.

3) Real-life "FFB" is a reactive (AKA passive) system whereas our games' FFB is an active system. This means, with games, the wheel's constantly being told where to go, at what speed, go here, do this, do that, whereas real-life FFB is simply passive. This is huge! Real-life FFB isn't told to "go here", "do this", "do that", it's just a natural by-product, a reaction, of natural forces being passed on and transmitted through the system.

4) Real-life vehicles have wayyyy more inertia in their steering systems from the tyres, suspension, and all sorts of other mechanical parts.

Here's a perfect test to show how flawed videogame FFB is. The more powerful your wheel base, the more you can expose this flaw:
In real life, what happens if you put a heavier steering wheel on? Think of an extreme example like replacing a 1 Kg steering rim with a 20 Kg steering rim. Well, the steering will become much slower and dull. What happens if you do the same with a FFB wheel (assuming the motor is very powerful so that hardware clipping doesn't come into play)? Well, the FFB motor will use MORE POWER in order to make up for the steering wheel's heavier weight so that the motor can move the steering wheel to the intended position (or speed) as it was told to. This is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of real-life.

In real-life, if you changed from a 1 Kg steering rim to a 20 Kg rim, the initial forces that eventually make their way to the steering wheel remain the same. Obviously the forces don't magically become stronger as if nature somehow magically knows you decided to use a heavier steering wheel that day . This is part of the reason (individual game physics and FFB programming aside) why running 1:1-with-real-life FFB strength in sims - like lots of people are obsessed with doing, especially in iRacing - does not give 1:1 FFB and is often wayyy too powerful & unrealistic compared to real-life.

Real-life "FFB" is a completely different animal compared to our games' and controllers' FFB (points 1-4 above) despite "on-paper" torque numbers.