Automobilista 2 May 2024 Development Update - The Road to V1.6 Pt1

Why not?

 

From my understanding these games have a physics model where they basically input values just the way other sims do, but much less complex and with just their generic tyremodels (racing/sports/comfort soft/medium/hard for GT7 for example).
That's probably why to me the cars in the same class in GT7 feel very similar, just a bit more or less power, weight, etc. without real character besides the drivetrain, just few numbers changed. In AMS2 everything feels very unique, even the GT3 cars feel completely different from one another.

 

I read it as 45th of September or so.

 

From memory the madness engine works by modelling each component of each of the cars.
It's apparently extremely detailed as a result.
To the point that they changed the viscosity of the oil in the differentials some time back to solve a sticky differential problem where the diffs wouldn't unlock correctly.
I don't know about GT or Forza being quite THAT in depth despite all the talk of an all new forzatech game engine for the most recent FM. Though both games are considered to be simcade rather than full on simulators. Which may be why @br1x92 mentions GT7 cars feeling very generic and similar.
I haven't played GT7 but have tried FM and find the stock race cars (no upgrades) also feel woefully bad and the tuning system seems to be contrary to reality and the handling is often atrociously bad.
SO bad that without significant tuning real world times are close to impossible in FM (At least for me).
Whilst in AMS2, (and most other true simulators) real world tuning techniques actually work as you'd expect.
The end result is I'm able to match real world race laptimes in AMS2 but can't in FM.
e.g. fastest GTE race lap in 2018 was 2:15.667 in 2019 it was 2:14.208 and these 2 vids show the differences between FM and AMS2.

Best I could do was 2:18.110.

Best I got was 2:13.858.

I doubt the CPU comes into the equation as a limiting factor for the games physics, that's mostly dictated by the game engine and the parameters they put into the engine.. (I don't KNOW this for certain, I'm no expert lol)
After all the madness engine was written when the Intel Core 2 quad Q8400 and AMD Phenom II X4 940 were the min requirement for PCars 1, sure the game engine was updated for each subsequent game, PC2, AMS2 and PC3 and the system requirements changed, this was more likely due to what was added over the core of the game engine such as the graphics etc..

 

Maybe go read Renato's actual post where he says quite clearly...
"1- There is no release date for AMS2 v1.6 outside the deliberately loose target of Summer 2024 (or Winter for those of us in the Southern hemisphere) - that goes all the way to mid-September, and I´m fairly confident we will make that by some margin."
Automobilista 2 May 2024 Development Update - The Road to V1.6 Pt1
Post #1646 to be exact....

 

Thanks! That was also my guess. I played GT and Forza a lot before I got my first wheel about 20 years ago and had a lot of fun with the racing. Now I also enjoy the driving

I read somewhere that until today every racing Sim is only using one or two cores/threads for the physics. Does anyone know if this is true and if yes why? I wonder if substantial leaps in physics would be possible if developers had more cpu power at hand?

 

GT7 just received a new physics update (1.49), and it's a significant one since they revamped the tire and suspension physics. Michelin, one of Polyphony Digital's partners, may have provided real tire telemetry for this update, as the results are very convincing. The game feels much more realistic now, with better FFB, improved weight transfer and more realistic slip angles.

Although this game is often labeled as a simcade, it does an excellent job of being "realistic" (it's not Ridge Racer xD) while remaining accessible. Random Callsign recently compared the weather systems between iRacing and GT7, and the results were surprisingly close.

Regarding the latest Forza Motorsport, I can't really comment on its current state. I played a bit at release, and it was a mess. I know the game has received a lot of updates since then, so it may be better now.

 

I don't think a lack of CPU resources is the dominant bottleneck when it comes to making racing physics simulation more realistic. There are simply too many unknown variables that there isn't available data for. Example: How does tire friction change under load and under different temperature conditions? Tire manufacturers have some data about this, but not from racing conditions and the data can't be extrapolated easily to other types of tires. In other words, it's more about interpretation and implementation rather than raw processing power.

 

That Michelin partnership is just branding like the Brembo partnership is as well. What they now added is the visual Michelin branded tyres.
They did significantly improve the FFB though, that's for sure.

 

The joke went right past you, didn't it?

 

According the to the Michelin official site, their partnership goes beyond branding :

"Since 2019, we have been the official tyre supplier of "FIA Certified Gran Turismo Championships" and the "official tyre technology partner". We share our knowledge of the real world with Gran Turismo teams to improve the gaming experience for all players."

'MICHELIN is the first tyre manufacturer to partner with a game developer and eSport series, with the goal of transferring real-world technology to the virtual world driving experience."

Michelin and Gran Turismo partnership

 

Obviously they are not going say "we bought ourselfes into GT7 for marketing. Good luck Polyphony Digital, we ain't doing more than pay but we hope for the best!".

They are "partners" for over 5 years now, brembo for about 3 years I think and there didn't happen anything other than in-game branding in either area in that time.

They did improve the physics with the latest update, but these partnerships are literally just advertising and have nothing to do with any of it.

 

A good source of info on this topic in general is Niels Heusinkveld's channel on youtube - very enlightening discussions regarding tyre data etc. there. Plus we know he knows what he's talking about as he worked on AMS1!

 

i know a lot of users like to dunk to anything that isn't ams2 because of tribalism mostly but i think it needs to be mentioned just how good GT7 has become over the last few months, you can disregard it and slap the whole "lmao simcade" tag on it but it's a fantastic entry point for racing and its online scene is great as well.

 

But you can't miss the absolute joke that was the last physics update in GT7. Flying cars etc etc etc .
The point is : GT7 will be always a simcade , whether you like it or not. At some point , you need to see the "truth".

 

From some of what I've gathered the update seems to no small degree divisive... I chalk that up largely to lots of people being used to a certain feel and there's the controller thing too, which a supermajority will be on with that title.
Some youtubers pointed out weirdness and erratic behavior with the new physics as in buggy stuff like cars taking to the air under certain conditions.
But that's bound to happen, fixes will follow no doubt.
I'm actually aching to give it a go. Never even remotely considered going near it.

 

I think the whole tyre topic can't be overstatet and having any kind of manufacturer Data is absolutely necessary if you want to develop anything inside a Simulation. I recently changed tires from Nexen N'fera Sport to Michelin Sport Pilot and the noticable differences are hughe, particularly >150-250 km/h and in in the wet. And thats just changing the brand not the size. Im not surprised that tyre modeling is a headache for developers all over the Sim Racing industry.

 

They complain about unexpected tyre performance even in the real world so doesn't seem like an exact science anyway.