Automobilista 2 Custom Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

I love these files so much, but the violent oscillation mentioned above is the same problem that prevents me using Karsten's grip files with my CSL Elite.

@Karsten Hvidberg I got 4 questions for you. I like messing with things. I can spend hours changing values here and there, but of course the parameters are so closely interlinked that changes on most parameters also affect others (mostly for the worse lol). So here we go:

1. In general which parameters would affect these oscillations in the previous couple of posts most?
2. Which parameters could induce an increased sense of loss of grip (lightening of wheel) in slow/medium corners? Fast corners obviously have a more intuitive build up and break of force once understeer kicks in. Surely it must be less in slower corners for obvious reasons I know, but a little extra might be nice?
3. Which parameters would induce a slightly more "rubber band" effect during cornering, ie. a slightly higher "return to centre force" during cornering? (I guess a kind of gyroscopic force??)
4. I suspect this one is due to some parameter I've changed, can't remember though. It sometimes seems that the wheel has a very light centre rotation/range at speed. For instance entering a fast chicane/corner or with a sudden move on a straight it's often hard to judge/feel the initial 'wheel turn grip' for lack of a better description, the wheel somehow has little force at speed, until you get some proper weight shift then the resistance kicks in. In any case, which parameters will have the greatest effect here?

Thanks for the great work btw.

EDIT: spelling

 

Hey Marnus,

Those are not easy questions to answer
1. Most. The problem is that any force we apply bc of bumps or strong centering at speed can lead to oscillations. It could possibly be improved a little more if the game supported 2 steering angles: 1 for the steering wheel and 1 for the actual direction the front wheels of the car should use. That would allow us to also emulate steering slack and damaged vbehicles etc..
2. I can put an old block back in to be able to customize it more, if needed. I have removed it on purpose for now in the exp. files, since the pneumatic+caster trails already add a strong sense of that.
3. There are many calculations in the file for this. They are all about velocity, load/downforce and grip. So any of those settings will adjust it.
4. It's hard to know without knowing the file you, but maybe the CSL elite, since it's a belt, takes just that little while to get the belt tight?

Feel very welcome to join adjusting the file at any time, btw, or more suggestions/questions like these. It's great, I thought for a little while that I was almost all alone in here

Best,

-Karsten

 

"rFuktor 5.0.1.3 - exp. grip 8"

* New downforce/speed build up algorithms.
* Load feel on bumps algorithm changed & adjusted. Not so exaggerated additional load on crests etc.
* Less oscillations bc of other adjustments.

This feels better to me on my wheel base. Hopefully it works well for others too.

 

*reposted, nicer load feel on bumps.

 

"rFuktor 5.0.1.3 - exp. grip 9"

* Changed suspension load feel algorithm.
* Adjustable by: "suspension_load_scale" and "suspension_load_smooth"

 

FullFFB - New Version​

What's new:

• Major revisions to several algorithms for improved performance and accuracy
• Comprehensive parameter tuning for better overall balance
• General code cleanup and some refactoring

Still to improve/implement:

• (no roadmap)

 

Hi Karsten!

I had to check the date twice....great to "see" u again!

Been using a kuku tune of your file. Works well for me. But I'll try your new stuff.

Missed you

 

Hi LugNut,

Good to hear from you as well!
Yes, I gave Kuku's file a spin quite a while ago, and I really liked it too.

Here's the next experimental:

"rFuktor 5.0.1.3 - exp. grip 10"

* Easier sharp turning at low speed.
* Slight balance feel added. You can modify:
(balance_scale 1)
(balance_limit 0.3)
* Center full scales down with valocity. Kuku told me it has helped him as part of avoiding oscillations in his tune. Thanks Kuke!
* Pneumatic trail as a variable "pneumatic_scale". Defaulted at 0 now, since it seems like Reiza's physics collapses it on front wheel, when rear wheels spin out. @ChrisOuellet now oversteer is strong with you again.
* Grip loss algorithm is back in.

 

You raised an interesting point regarding increasing the "gain" in the game. Yes, that's possible with the new Simagic Evo bases if they're too loose for you. However, doing so also increases other forces and other FFBs, which can lead to clipping. The new Simagic Evo bases are being hyped online for their "cogging-free" properties. Yes, that's true; there's no noticeable cogging, making these bases incredibly fast and lively, which is fantastic. But that can have downsides. The mechanical feel at the steering axle that any real car provides, and that the belt and gear bases provide in a simulation, is significantly less or almost unnoticeable with the Evo bases. Therefore, it may be beneficial to use some friction or inertia in the base settings of these bases. This will better simulate and recreate the mechanical feel of your steering axle. I'll likely consider this in my next Evo base recommendations. Of course, this is also very subjective and depends on personal taste

 

It was unavoidable:

rFuktor 5.0.1.3 - exp. "grip" 11

* Smoothing algorithm changed.
* Edge feel modified to work well with new smoothing.
* Balance algo adjusted.
* Tyre stretch algorithm changed.
* Less force on slow turning, when not under balance or wheels are loaded.

This is starting to get more final.
We need the balance and front/rear stretch values adjusted, so they feel the best possible. So anybody up for it, please don't hesitate to find optimal settings across cars for these:
- "balance_scale"
- "front_tyre_stretch_feel" / "rear_tyre_stretch_feel"

They are closely related and important to have the best combination.

 

It's endable. But needs this:

rFuktor 5.0.1.3 - exp. "grip" 12


* Inertia added. Feel it when accelerating hard, for example in a formula.
Tune it by "inertia_scale".

Again, anybody feel free to pitch in.

 

rFuktor 5.0.1.3 - exp. "grip" 13

* Inertia fixed to be using the actual front wheel's acceleration more correctly.
* Inertia fixed to be more stable between different cars, by not relying on wheel diameter.

 

@Marnus Zwarts

For your #3 question, to be more specific, in the last file, you can adjust:

* Stretch front/rear
* Balance
* Yaw

as well as:
(angle_d_l (* angle_d_l 1.7))
(angle_d_r (* angle_d_r 1.7))
&
(angle_d_l (/ angle_d_l 1.7))
(angle_d_r (/ angle_d_r 1.7))


To make it feel very different on cornering. The 1.7's make the angle on the steering itself have less impact the more you turn. You can turn it up if you want the "base" directional torque be less, and down to have it be more. That is before balance/yaw/stretch and general load's are added. So then those will have a bigger part of making it heavy on turning.

I hope this helps!

 

Tuning of the file still remains, so any observations are very welcome.

Also the damping slider is not used, so any good ideas for that? It would have to be something somewhat related.

 

Maybe some slider setting to adjust the ffb feel from tin tops to more of a open wheeler setup if that's possible?

 

Yes, the only problem is you'd have to change it between changing those cars too.. unless the type could be detected in the file and then the damping could work as some offset from a baseline on downforce scaling for any car, maybe?
It is one of the things not tuned in the file now as well, the downforce factor.

 

Ok @Marnus Zwarts, here it is:

rFuktor 5.0.1.3 - exp. "grip" 14

* Damping slider used for how much headroom to allocate for downforce.
* Downforce now scales the force directly, not fakely exponentially. Meaning it now scales with true aero downforce (so with velocity squared), multiplied by a constant. In formulas, like V10, you will have a much better sense for the level of grip. It dynamically projects/estimates the high speed downforce, and scales based on the damping slider and also how much headroom is left in "gain".
* Stretch adjusted.


Important to have the in-game damping slider now set at some meaningful value. Start by 50%.
Adjust higher for more "dampened" feel(less headroom) of downforce, and lower for more headroom for downforce.

I think this is a good change(edit: to try, we likely will find some best general value)! So thanks Marnus!

 

thanks daniel fot the fantastic ffb file v7000. now i have the new simagic evo pro but how can i reduce the occilastions alittle bit?

 

Congratulations on purchasing this excellent base

As I posted above, these Evo bases are cogging-free. A huge advantage, but they also have disadvantages. These disadvantages can be remedied with a few minor base adjustments. I assume you're using the recommended in-game settings. I would fix the vibrations and lack of mechanical feel on the steering axle of these Evo bases roughly like this:

Mechanical Friction: Increase to approximately 5-10%
Mechanical Inertia: Increase to approximately 5-10%
Wheel Rotation Speed: Reduce to approximately 65-70%

These adjustments will give you more stability and less vibration. You'll also get more mechanical feel on your steering axle. In addition, the loose middle is strengthened a little which is caused by this 0 "cogging"

I personally made these adjustments to my Evo base (12 Nm). Maybe it will help you a little.

 

Thanks for that continued work!!
Every now and then I go over all the available FFB custom types around (again), but always find the FulLFFB to be the most complete, and less 'flawed' (if not near perfect) across all possible car situations.

Though of late, I do not get great rear wheel slip/slide feel (lighter steering) from ANY of the Custom FFB files around. None give almost any reduction in front pressure (steering not going lighter).
But overall they seem to give the same other levels of bumps, vibrations, steering pressure etc.
My Moza R12 is pretty well 'zero settings' to mess up FFB clarity, but maybe it is at the Moza end and not the game/FFB(?).