1.6 - Issues with grip

Just a side tidbit about GT4s just being converted road cars .
When looking closely over this 570s GT4 . i was surprised just how full on it looks . it’s a very purposeful built for performance and seemingly similar aero features to GT3 , so i’m they certainly shouldn’t lack for aero .

 

Version 1.6 may not have made any additional changes to the grass, but due to overall physical change, some issues on the grass have become more obvious, such as strange spin when back to track from grass (without any pedal input).

About the issue of oversteer, I believe that the physical characteristics should be realistic and neutral. We can set the car to achieve the desired characteristics, rather than presenting a trend as it is now.

I think some of your feelings are correct. I played on simagic ALPHA U base and it feels similar to yours. The physics of the grass/kerbs is very different from the other SIMs.

 

For sure, it does have more aero than most production street cars. Eg: Splitter, side skirts, rear wing, etc. But it's not stripped and purpose built like a full on GT3 car with more aero components, eg: canards, flat bottom floor, race rear diffuser, etc. Those things add up and make a big difference. I mean just look at the race diffuser on this GT3 McLaren! Isn't it a work of art?
Sorry didn't mean to take this thread off topic.

 

When I say connected I mostly talk about 2 things for me.
1. Force feedback, this one is simple, it is the main way I feel the car and right now I don't have any other way to describe it, basically in 1.5 I could push the cars into a position were I felt neither front or rears were really gripping, the ffb gave a somewhat vague feel were the car was just 4 wheel drifting through the corners, this was specially pronounced in the GT cars although not as bad in the formula cars, I remember comparing the 2023 brasil stock car to the 2024 when we only had the previous revisions and the difference was a very clear definition when the car lost grip.
2. Understeer? This one is a bit odd I know but back in 1.5 it never felt like cars really understeered in ams2, it always gave you the impresion that the rears were the limiting factor and the fronts just went, this was a problem that came specially from pcars2 back in the day, it's still there if anybody wants to test it, grab any high downforce car in pcars2 and violently steer to one angle, the front will instantly grip and the rears will be the ones limiting the rotation, in 1.6 there's a clear limit to the fronts, if you violently steer now you'll get massive understeer and no rotation, the car will simply go straight which is what I would expect.

Now, what I instantly felt with the 2024 stock cars and the f1 when they first appeared was the "point of no return", which is still here in 1.6, now you can loose a car to the point were you'll be unable to recover it, and I admit sometimes there are situations in which I think I shoulda saved the car but it doesn't react, I believe this is something that Reiza is also somewhat aware but there needs to exist a point of no return, otherwise we would never see drivers irl loosing the car in any situation, it's just a matter of how much.

But for general driving for me 1.6 is a clear winner over 1.5.

 

Yes, I often encounter the situation you mentioned while driving. Once the car gets to 'point of no return', no matter what you do it is in vain. The car will stop only after complete a spin or crash on wall.

 

Gotcha, so it's just some abstract FFB effect you are referencing to. I'm one of those weirdos that doesn't really care much for all the fancy FFB effects. I basically run most games with the FFB toned down. Good FFB for me is, if I get a minor hint when the rear starts to step out and if I feel a bump on the road. Steering wheel getting heavier or lighter and all that other stuff is wasted on me as my brain isn't programed that way. Probably because I drive with ham fists and have primarily raced cars with power steering. So when someone says "connected", to me it means how quickly the car responds to a user's inputs and how long it has grip until it starts to slide.

I primarily use visual, sound information and muscle memory to determine how a car should react when I do X or Y. Or how I should react to a car based on if it does X or Y, thanks to years of muscle memory. It's why I struggle with subscriptions like iRacing because it just conflicts with my muscle memory which causes frustration on my end. My brain keeps telling me, "No the car shouldn't be doing that". It's probably also why the lack of FFB effects in PCars2 and ACC never bothered me. Honestly it's impressive you guys can tell so much from FFB effects.

I think Gamer Muscle describes it really well in this video.

 

You mean the dude that dont even have a drivers licens? That namecalls AMS2 fans?

 

Yeah for me it's ffb, but the way I see it is that if you only get your info from muscle memory, sound and visuals you will struggle to feel changes in car behaviour that you can make by altering the setup, I can make a car be way more pointy or less just with a couple of adjustments in the setup, and if the ffb isn't telling me anything I won't be able to react.
However it's not just ffb, I think this video conveys that feeling pretty well:

He's actually very right there, thats the way Reiza sets up Default+ ffb

 

You got it nothing more to mention.
...and the guy with the less hair should shut up....

 

The game improved a lot since that video though, which I guess after 1.5 (and 1.5.3 was already big jump that took months to develop).

As for the FFB+, what I find weird in GM's comments, is that I find default+ super informative on how the car behaves and that is what he is usually looking for.

I know there is also things that he calls "noise" (which for me is actually something that makes it feel like driving, like engine vibrations and such), but you can tone those down.

But let's not make this a FFB thread ...

 

Yea the thing is I don't struggle at all to notice changes when driving with minimal FFB effects. If I adjust X, I can see Y happening even if I don't feel it through the steering wheel. Hard to explain but I can visually see it, time it and notice the difference from how the car reacts to the wheel/pedals inputs. It seems Reiza improved the FFB (subjective) effects coming from the tires to the wheel but might have made the tires a lot more unforgiving in the process. In a league I run, post V1.6, those who are much more in tune with FFB have massively improved their pace but those who rely less on FFB are constantly spinning out.

 

Seems this issue improved slightly after 1.6.3.5 , keep improving , REIZA!

 

I will tell my experienceI mean my experience with 1.6. I'll only talk about the GT3 G1 Porsche, with the 1.5 it looked like a rally car, a lot of oversteer but then you could percept and see if the tire overheated or if you were about to lose grip and you had to be good at managing it. Now I'll tell you what happens to me, does it happen to me that the car turns without any warning, whether it's the second lap or the tenth, overheated tires? No, cold tires? no.. Car trim? Fast slow always the same thing happens, it's like a random thing and you lose the fun because when I finally find competitive players I don't have as much fun as before, my car can suddenly become 1-2 seconds slower without an explanation or turn so randomly.
It happened to me several times on tracks where I was winning and I was 20 seconds from the second and I was even driving slowly out of boredom and spam, the car turns like this in a corner without any kind of feeling.
Today in Lemans, I give birth last, I recover almost everyone, Dry road and suddenly on the straight I press the brake a little and my car turns around in the middle of the straight

 

Yea, I'm not a fan of the V1.6 tire updates, so much so that I don't even play AMS2 much anymore. The problem I have is the sudden loss of rear traction that happens on turn in as you're trailbraking into a turn with cars that aren't as reliant on downforce for grip. As you are lifting off the brake and using the load on the front to get the car to turn in, the rear just snaps with little to no warning and leads to an unrecoverable spin. There doesn't seem to be any progressive break away characteristic of the tire. I can see they tried to make the tire more "responsive" but perhaps sacrificing too much of the progressive break away characteristic. Honestly I find it unrealistic and frustrating.

 

I’m very curious, could you maybe share a video with the telemetry hud on as well as the setup you are using where this happens? I feel like a lot can be ironed out through the setup

 

Sure I can dial it out using setup, basically start removing front end turn in grip (stiffness, castor, brake bias, etc). But it's the wrong way to go about it, IMHO. It leads to a weird compromised setup that doesn't drive right. Normally when you over load the front tires while trailbraking, they wash out before the rear loses grip. In a lot of the circumstances where the rear snaps, it happens with a lot of load on the front end, where the front end should be washing out, not the rear end snapping out. It's not something I do when setting up a car in real life or any other sim racing title. Either way not a fan.

 

I agree with that feeling

same here this combined with the right custom FFB to get a better feel to catch quick oversteer makes the Sim enjoyable for me

that plus the tuning of my ALPHA wheelbase that helped too

 

Increase the engine break value, that actually decrease the force of it, it basically ends the problem.
Get it to the highest value and see the difference when tailbraking.

 

I came here to find if anyone else is feeling the same as me and glad I'm not alone. AMS2 used to be far and away my favourite sim but I'm just finding it so frustrating after 1.6. It kind of reminds me of why I quite IRacing many years ago with so many races ruined in WTF moments of losing the rear where you didn't feel like you overdrove, just the rear tires seemed to suddenly turn into blocks of ice.

I've had many great AMS2 races on lfm , but over time the fear of getting caught out wth a spin just creates all this anxiety on each turn so you end up under-driving and I dunno it just stops being fun. It's really unfortunate and I think the massive drop in AMS2 players on lfm means there's others finding it frustrating, and indeed you see people spinning at a much higher frequency than other sims. Of the lfm races, I find GT3 and LMDH are the worst offenders, with GT4 being a bit more driveable, so at least I can just do those going forward.

In terms of realism, obviously I have no way of knowing, but it really feels like they've gone overboard on the drop off of grip after the peak grip angle is reached. I really hope they'll be revisiting this, perhaps getting real life driver feedback as well?

 

Try doing what I said above. Its another case of too extreme default setup values written in stone for some reason, every car has engine break at 2 and rear diferential clutches at 6 for some reason