AI Aggression - placebo setting at best

Definitely some common themes developing though.

 

Great information, thank you.

I would like to add one point about the player coming off worse in any collisions: this seems to be particularly bad in MP when you have AI on track too. If you are not the host then any slight tap to the rear of an AI seems to have you spining off.
I appreciate that latency comes into play here, but I've seen this regularly even with quite low latencies (30-45ms)

 

The very fact that Renato and devs are prepared to come on the forum with these kind of analyses is precisely why they're so highly regarded by members of this community. Thanks Renato for taking the time to allay a few fears and put a few of my (shared) misconceptions to bed.

 

Very well said. Renato has quite the art for his wording as well, it is very well spoken. Just one of the many reasons why I moved away from rFactor 2. No development for the AI since Studio 397 took over, and it's only been made worse. Marcel is very incompetent.

Quite the breath of fresh air seeing so much interaction in these forums.

 

So many developers just bugger off to Discord and other social media, and ignore the huge resource that is their forum.

 

If you haven't already got it, you can currently buy AMS1 in the Steam sale for £5.

 

The latest patch 1.2.1.0 has improved the GTE/GT3 AI behaviour for me at my "go to" track Nurburgring Veedol. I had 2 races without frustration. In fact, they seem much better at this track at least. Of course YMMV.

Thanks for the additional improvements in this area. (Keep them coming)

 

It works like this in AMS1, it can be the same here:
Now that we have AI drivers with more notable personalities (different performance among them), consider not skipping qualify for your race, this will make the best AIs not be scattered around the grid, generating more aggressive behaviors, in case they start at part of rear with slower AIs at the front.

 

Are you sure? I rarely do qualifying and usually just start from the back of a grid of 20 cars. My perception, without carefully checking AI driver names and their progress, is that the 3 AI drivers starting in 17th to 19th always finish in a group in the last 3 positions and always have the slowest lap times. Then there's the AI drivers starting in the front 5 or 6 positions who all finish as a group at the front, usually with 1 second of each other, and all have the fastest lap times. The middle bunch obviously start and finish in between.

 

60 aggression seems like a good balance with the latest update. Awesome side-by-side racing with little sideways swipes.

 

Just to clarify, I mean disabling qualy on the weekend and not skipping/advancing, because in this case, the system will simulate the times of the AIs.

AI personalities still deserve work, and the behavior mentioned may vary by class/combo. But just like in AMS1, this should happen as it is a natural behavior.

Video below of a race without qualy (start middle), without aids, everything authentic (track progression, damage, tires, fuel...) AI 100% / 75%. Note that in the first 2 laps, the McLaren 720 blue in front of me, which is faster and starts in the middle of the grid, behaves much more aggressively when overtaking the slower cars in front, touches, use of the curb...

Anyway, there will always be different opinions, because when it comes to AI, it's very subjective.

 

Nice video and a great example of the point you make. I'll be trying your suggestion too!

 

I agree with your observation here 100%. Its been a consistent distraction for me and kind of ruins the longevity/replayability aspect of coming back to the same race in a championship etc. I just did round one of my formula trainer cup using @Wedsley Dias suggestion above and here are my results. Difficulty 105%, 50% aggression. My finishing position was first from the back of the grid.



As you can see, first 4 cars finish within 2 seconds of each other, then a pause, then the next group etc. The problem is that this is a consistent result exactly as you describe.

Further investigation required I would guess..

 

Wedsley's video is interesting as it does seem to demonstrate AI aggression/personality (rather than just demonstrating one AI car being faster than some others), although it'd be interesting to see if an AI driver in a similarly faster car, but with a different, less aggressive personality makes heavier weather of overtaking the same slower cars. I'd never observed this behaviour before but that's possibly because I rarely do qualifying, so the AI seem to already be arranged on the grid in order of speed, so don't do much overtaking other than within their own little pack of drivers of similar speed.

Whilst Reiza continue tuning the AI, perhaps the best way to see more AI personality in action is to do (the opposite of) what Wedsley suggests and have a qualifying session but then do quit it, if that means that the AI might end up in a more random order on the grid and so the faster ones are more likely to have to show their aggression/personality as they work their way through the slower AI.

I think this is where communication from Reiza can be important in understanding and recognising aspects of AI behaviour. It was also be useful to eventually be able to see the attributes of each AI driver, so we can look out for the differences in their behaviours. The tendency is for players to focus only on what's wrong with the AI - eg. they keep ramming me from behind, they're too fast/slow or they're taking weird lines, whereas videos such as Wedsley's give you a different perspective on them and make you more inclined to look for positive aspects.

For what it's worth, I quite enjoy racing the AI now, although I agree with you that if the race results become more or less predictable, it doesn't give much incentive to get immersed in a custom championship. A bit a AI error, inconsistency, mechanical failure, etc will be necessary to add depth to the experience and also prevent the outcome of all races being too similar.

 

Yes, the differences in personality are good to see, and great fun out on track. Perhaps the aggressiveness could become also a likelihood of giving up the corner/racing line setting as well.. that would have a profound and obvious impact on the racing! It would also solve the issue outlined below..

At the moment all the Ai react the same when the player is alongside even marginally. They move away from the player. All the player has to do is get alongside in the tiniest way and they react predictably (which is good at 100mph + but open to exploit). What would be great would be if the aggressiveness set by the slider impacted on the aggressiveness of those Ai who possess that quality and made it less likely that they would give up the line unless the player was sufficiently alongside. In general if the driver has his front wheels abeam the opponents rear wheel then sufficient room should be left. It is less open to exploit as the only way the player can achieve this is by superior speed or later braking, so a balance would have to be achieved by either slipstreaming, better exit on the previous corner, or later braking without damaging your own car by torpedoing the opponent mid corner.

Im sure it wont take long (relative term I know) for the Ai to become even better. Its only little things really like Ai driving full tilt into a bollard rather than back off when alongside in order to slot back in behind. Likewise Ai when even marginally alongside will not back off to get a better line, instead sticking in that marginal position (sometimes into an obstacle) again rather than slotting back in behind as a human would once its obvious the move isnt going to succeed. There's other sims out there where the Ai do back off and slot back in so I guess it can be done eventually within AMS2.