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AM2 Early Backing - Tech Questions

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Paul Cohen, Feb 4, 2020.

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  1. Paul Cohen

    Paul Cohen New Member Reiza Backer

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    Hi,

    I'm thinking about jumping into the early backing, but have a couple of misgivings about the PC2 Mad Engine driving experience that I'd like to know if Reiza is fixing with AM2.

    1. PC2 gamepad controller feedback is seriously lacking on road. It's like driving on glass. Compare the experience to how rF2 (& AC/ACC to a lesser extent) implement tire/road feeback effects for the gamepad which is great and adds a lot to the immersion. No Controller Rumble Over Bumps?
    Q: Will AM2 be implementing proper gamepad feedback for all tire/surface interactions or will they be using default mad engine settings a la PC2?

    Some other great gamepad questions here: Will game-pad axis settings be fully customisable, or limited like Project Cars 2?

    2. VR in PC2 is horribly flawed with flickering apparent on certain surfaces, especially fences. This is so bad I don't use PC2 in VR, and combined with this issue and the above gamepad feedback I uninstalled it and just use AC/rF2 for VR (ACC VR was bad but in the latest V1.3 release got a boost and is now great too).
    Q: Will AM2 VR be higher quality than PC2, rectifying well known visual VR glitches such as the flickering fences issue?

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  2. Paul Cohen

    Paul Cohen New Member Reiza Backer

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    Do any devs read this forum?
     
  3. Wexodius

    Wexodius Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes they do. They're hard at work trying to make AMS2 a success. I am sure they are aware of the concerns/wishes in the community regarding the next iteration of Automobilista. Not in the least since it frequently gets compared with PC2. I am confident they are trying their utmosts to address most of these concerns/wishes by investing the majority of their time into the development of AMS2. As Renato once said " the proof lies in the pudding" and that pudding is coming at the end of March & beyond. Their will also be continued development for the coming years as this sim will continue to grow in content and quality.

    I have come to know Reiza studios as a dedicated and talented group of people, hence I trust they will deliver with the same love and motivation as they have done for AMS1. Spending time on this forum has taught me they read the forum and try to respond where possible or appropriate. AMS1 is for me personally the best racing sim I owned since Geoff Crammond's F1GP, GP4 and Papyrus Indycar series.
     
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  4. Paul Cohen

    Paul Cohen New Member Reiza Backer

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    I know full well the Reiza team is dedicated & working hard, but I'm also asking perfectly reasonable pre-sales questions regarding serious flaws in the Mad Engine implementation for PC2.

    I reinstalled PC2 a couple of days ago to check if I was being overly critical of it, but I uninstalled it after a couple of hours testing confident that I'm not. Despite the huge car/track/weather features, driving it is just not the same UX as AC/ACC/rF2/DR2/WRC8 level on a gamepad. I can't speak for AM as I haven't bought it.

    I know Reiza have a lot on their plate to get done by release, and tasks get prioritized to do that.

    I'd just like to get some indication that these are being addressed for V1 release, not some unspecified time "down the track". I'm not the only one who has raised these issues, and they are significant UX killers. I know PC2 Wheel FFB was much improved with some custom FFB hacks, but I'm talking about the sub-standard gamepad feedback here.

    If not, that's fine too. I don't need to rush to buy to save a few bucks if it's way down the task list in their priority, I can wait (& Reiza gets more money too).
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  5. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Just wait until release to confirm what is what if you do not receive an answer.
     
  6. Wolfgang Herold

    Wolfgang Herold New Member Reiza Backer

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    Gamepads give no feedback like FFB. Its just rumble.
    No different feel possible. No damping, no friction, no spring

    you brake and slide - rumble.
    ABS - rumble
    tractionloss -rumble
    rumble strip - rumble.
    anything else - rumble
    if you think a gamepad can give Force Feed Back, you never drove a FFB wheel.

    In case of pCARS 2 VR
    You didn't write your specs. PCARS is really demanding on hardware compared to AC,RF2.
    So if you have a weak GPU, you cannot get rid of that flickering.
    If your PC is strong enough, pCARS 2 has the best VR experience of all.
    In this case, with the possibly better work done by Reiza devs, AMS2 VR could be a new reference for VR.

    just my 2 cents :D:whistle:
     
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  7. Paul Cohen

    Paul Cohen New Member Reiza Backer

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    Oh, please, I know it's not the same as wheel FFB - please note I was talking about gamepad feedback which is not "Force Feedback". And it's not just "Rumble". XBox one controller (and others like Razer) have trigger vibration as well and can provide some very sophisticated feedback effects with the right algo and input. Yes, we know it's not the same as a wheel FFB (duh) but it can provide a huge level of value added immersion for gamepad users.
    Comparing PC2 gamepad feedback vs AC, ACC, rF2, DR2, WRC8 is a world of difference in gamepad feedback fidelity. It's been pointed out by a lot of users, it's not just my "opinion". If you play all those sims I mentioned you'll know exactly what I mean and the range of gamepad feedback effects that are possible.

    Anyway, I know from the Development updates Reiza is working on a new FFB system and I was curious to know if that also extended to gamepad feedback and how far they were going with it. But whatever, I backed it and will see how it goes. I haven't used AM before, so I'll give that a shot before the beta and compare it to the above.

    And let's not start the "get a wheel" debate either, people use gamepads over wheels for many reasons. We all know a wheel is ideal, but for lots of reasons people use a gamepad (cost, disability, physical space, etc)

    As for my PC I use a Ryzen 3700x with an RTX 2060 which more than enough to run ACC at the highest settings, a well known performance hog and that was before the 1.3 performance improvement update. As for PC2 VR being "the best", I would say initially I thought so too and then the visual issues + flacid gamepad feedback became annoyances big enough to stop using it after 73 hours. Not a big deal as I got it and all DLC on sale for ~$15, but a little disappointing compared to the competition.

    If you like it, good for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  8. Paul Cohen

    Paul Cohen New Member Reiza Backer

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    Update: Having backed it I installed AM for a play as that's one sim I didn't have as yet.
    Happy to say that I can add AM gamepad feedback to the list of good sims that make PC2 gamepad feedback look totally flacid. I hope that carries through to AM2!

    Edit: After playing with AM a bit more I think it has the edge of rF2 in terms of gamepad feedback. Looking forward to the beta/release either way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  9. MrGold

    MrGold New Member Reiza Backer

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    How do you get rid if reflection aliasing errors? I run a 2070 Super and I could never get rid of them in VR. Really annoying as some of the reflections are amazing (seeing the scenery reflected in the bodywork of the car in front) but the shimmering is really distracting and immersion braking.
     
  10. Paul Cohen

    Paul Cohen New Member Reiza Backer

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    This fix partly worked for me to reduce flickering, but not 100% Flickering Issue [UPDATE] :: Project CARS 2 Offtopic

    The PC2 engine has some serious visual flaws, so I hope they fix it. I did go back and look at some AM2 videos from the dev notes and on close inspection did notice flickering was in some of them.

    The reflection aliasing may be related to this.
     
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