AMS 2 damage model

well yesterday I ended up driving the Porsche cup for fun (wasn't planning to review it) but as usual I made a mistake with cold tires, so I thought you know what? since I already binned it why not hit the other side of the car for a print to the forum?
the car have the same damage model from all the 991 modern GT 911 Porsches (GT3R and RSR GTE car), it can lose/damage both front and rear bumper, rear wing, hood and have moderate deformation on the edges of the car body. pretty solid.


for next I'll do the DTM cars and copa classic if i find some free time this week. after I'm done with touring cars I'll go for the one make cars and road cars, and then god have mercy of me start with the hundreds of amazing open wheelers that AMS 2 have (that gonna be a lot of work lol)

 

Since i went quite far in the testing here I'll make a quick summary of cars without a damage model at the moment I'm posting this (in 07/09/2023), and the cars with incomplete or lackluster damage model that woulda been nice for Reiza to update on the future.

First with the cars without a damage model, the list is quite small thankfully compared to what it was on launch.
- Some karts (although it doesn't make much of a difference on those)
- The formula trainer (both versions)
- Formula Junior (kinda surprising considering its a new addition)

Now cars with a very lackluster (basic damage model) some of them are extremely off compared to other cars on the same class.
- Copa Montana: cant lose rear diffuser or bumper and can't lose the wheel covers like the stock cars and sprint race cars, + the taillight bug
- Cadillac DPi: have great deformation but can only lose rear wing, losing the wheel covers and rear bumper woulda been nice and maybe the engine cover too
- Porsche 962 Long Tail (low downforce variant): unlike the standard 962 it cant lose the wheel covers, the reason for this is Reiza using the Pcars 3 model instead of the Pcars 2 model, its a very easy fix honestly just use the Pcars 2 model
3 Mercedes models (keep in mind that the 190E at one point had the same issues until a update and the newer Mercedes cars like the Gt4 and the Copa Truck do have dangling parts that fall off, so I doubt this limitation is due to Mercedes not allowing it in the license, (worth noting that iRacing and race room mercedes cars do have a complete damage model, with the only brand being more restrictive in that department being ferrari exclusively on Raceroom as on iRacing i saw the 488GT3 losing the hood and bumpers)
- Sauber C9: Doesn't lose anything except the rear wing, should at least lose the wheel cover/hood
- CLK LM: that is a odd one, in a update without mentioning anything about it on the patchnotes, the CLK could lose the hood just like other GT1 cars but since 1.5 and again without any notes that was reversed (no idea why)
- Mercedes AMG GT GT3: have a really odd deformation (at the front) and cant lose anything except the rear wing, should also be an easy one as its younger GT4 brother have similar deformation but it doesn't look odd, because unlike the GT3 merc, it can actually lose parts like the Hood and the front and rear bumpers. so converting what is possible from the gt4 model to the gt3 model should fix it.
- Formula Ultimate Gen1: can only lose the front wing and the wheels, every other part of the car is not detachable including the rear wing for some reason (like in the modern codemasters F1 games)

now minor nitpicks:
2020-2023 stock cars not losing the rear bumper

2020-2022 corolla taillight bug, and no scratches at the rear (this was fixed in the 2023 model)

some formula cars losing the nose and front wing in a single part (I think that the front wing and nose should be separate dangling parts and the front wing need to be easier to fall off than the nose) (some examples gen 1-3 F-USA, Mclaren F-V10, Formula Reiza)

Some gt cars and prototypes not losing the front splitter, or the rear diffuser or both (like the McLaren F1 GTR, some ginettas, The Sigma G5 and Metalmoro AJR P1 both gen 1 and 2 as well as some P2, P3 and P4 prototypes)

Some Formula cars can't lose the nose like the ultimate Gen 2 (and gen 1), F-V10 gen 1 and 2 (the gen 1 McLaren f-v10 can lose it but falls under the other nitpick where nose and front wing always fall attached to one another) i think that the f-v12 do as well but I'm not sure and the F3 too as well as the F-USA 2023. there are others as well that i might forgotten

the opala 1986 stock car not losing the front bumper

Nissan R390 not losing the rear bumper

that should be all for this text, it was a hell of a wall of text, hopefully someone from Reiza does read it

next time i write something this long it will probably when I make a tier list for the damage model of the cars after i test every one available

 

This is a really great thread @Pandytim99 - thank for all your work on it.

As this is your thread I thought I'd ask first - is this a good place to introduce a discussion about a related issue: mechanical / random failures, their frequency and causes?

It seems this thread is about what I would call "direct damage" i.e. the player hits a curb and breaks the suspension - the damage is a direct and obvious consequence of player action. (This is set in the gameplay menu under damage type and damage scale).

What I would call "indirect damage" (aka mechanical failures and random failures) might be a coolant leak caused by... well... that's one of many things I want to discuss. As I understand it the damage is still a consequence of player actions but less directly.



Would you prefer a new thread or is it relevant here?

 

I was planning of covering more of the mechanical damage in this tread in the future, AMS 2 have a quite interesting one that doesn't consist only on RNG failures but also other factors such as extreme setups (high boost + reduced air vent will mess up the engine fast), driving a car with damaged suspension for long will eventually cause the suspension to collapse, same goes for very damaged front and rear wing for some formula cars, I remember once mishifting by accident from 4th to third when i wanted 5th gear on a f retro and immediately blew the engine, downshifting too aggressively on braking can make you lose gears as well, flat spots are also a thing all thought sadly they are not visible, punctures and forcing a car with a big flatspot to damage the suspension could be great additions on the future

 

It is relevant here feel free to post all your findings

 

update the Mercedes CLK LM hood damage returned on the beta

 

I'm back and with the DTM damage

All of them have a similar consistent damage model and it's great.
let's start with the merc, my favorite one. It have great deformation, can lose both bumpers, the hood and the trunk, lights and windows can crack as well.


Now the mighy M3, one of the most successful touring car ever, it have a fairly similar damage to the mercedes keeping the class very consistent.

 

alright, wasn't originally planning on doing this but since the CLK LM damage model got fixed, I decided to bring it here

The GT1 Damage model, (with that finalizing the analysis of gt cars until new ones arrive)

Let's start with the merc that got the damage model than lost it and now got it again
the visual damage get the job done, the car have small body deformation, can damage/lose the rear wings, crack the lights, and lose/damage the hood. It does deliver the impact but i think the car shoulda also lose the rear bumper engine cover and the front splitter.


Now the Porsche from one german to another and well, we got more of the same from the 1998 Le Mans winner. Moderate to low body deformation, can lose the hood and rear wing and crack the lights. It also keep the splitter issue and i think it should also lose the rear diffuser and engine cover but again, not the case.


Now the Nissan, the mos recent GT1 addition, and well it keep more of the same. again light body deformation, can lose hood and rear wing, and crack the taillights. but hey at leat this one can lose the splitter along its hood, but again can't lose the rear bumber or engine cover.


Lat but not least, and definably my favorite one (excluding the Panoz mod) the McLaren F1 GTR, and remember the complaints I made about the other cars earlier? well the McLaren fixed most of them. Body deformation is more of the same, but the car can lose hood, rear wing, rear bumper and the tiny engine cover. cant lose the splitter thought but well thats a minor thing at this point. woulda be lovely if the other gt1 cars get an update to match the McLaren damage model, on the bright side they all drive great! one of the best content in the game for sure.

 

This is the damage menu in the sim:



Pandytim99 has been providing lots of very useful information about the first two items on the menu: what I would call "direct damage" i.e. the player hits a curb and breaks the suspension - the damage is a direct and obvious consequence of player action. (This is set in the gameplay menu under damage type and damage scale).

With Pandytim99's permission, I want to broaden the the discussion to what I'll refer to as "indirect damage" (aka mechanical failures and random failures in the menu). The indirect damage I have been experiencing most frequently is a coolant leak that ultimately destroys the engine if you ignore it, although I have also discovered that 3 pitstops with full damage repair enabled was not enough to save my car (or my race).

I've found it difficult to find detailed information about how indirect damage works in the sim. We know it's called Advanced Mechanical Damage Modelling (AMDM) and was introduced in August 2022 (at that time to a limited set of cars) as part of update to V1.4.1.3: Automobilista 2 V1.4.1.0 Released - Now Updated to V1.4.1.3

First let me say I completely support this addition to the sim, especially as you can turn it off if you don't want it. It has been stressed that AMDM does not introduce fully random failures but failures as a consequence of events:

So damage to the car from contact, over-revving the engine etc will increase the probability of a failure and and the randomness element presumably determines whether that failure occurs or not.

I'm guessing here but I think this is how it works: let's say you've had contact with the car in front, prior to contact the probability of a coolant leak might have been 1%, but now it's 50%. The sim will give you a coolant leak in 1 race out of 100 in the first instance (no contact) and 1 race in 2 in the second instance. I stress again this is me guessing at how it works - not official at all.

Two things:

(1) I'd like to invite anyone with actual knowledge of how AMDM works to contribute so we can all understand it better. Perhaps I've missed other posts - let me know and we can add links to this very useful damage thread.

(2) I'd like to suggest a bit more within-game feedback on what's happened. We have AMDM because we want a true-to-life simulation but in the real world we would get feedback as to WHY we might have got the coolant leak (or other indirect damage). It should be realistic feedback - e.g. "that contact might have caused the coolant leak" or "the engine was running hot - we should have done x or y or z". At the moment I have no clue why, on a recent race, I had a coolant leak on lap 4 while leading having had no contact with anything. I think if we are going to sim the damage (I'm all for it!) let's sim at least a partial explanation or a hint... or something... anything...

Thanks for reading my long-ish post.

 

whenever the update drop I'll probably do a post highlighting the cars with issues with their damage model, first with major issues then minor nickpicks, feel free to add any issue no matter how small here (if its related to the damage model of course)

 

Since not for media restrictions are gonna I'm gonna first point out that the Mercedes clk lm got fixed even before the beta went on not for media, that's why i posted it, several formula cars got scratches and light body deformation, f-ultimate gen 1 damage model got fixed, but as far as I'm aware that's it, no fix for the Sauber C9, Mercedes GT3 and the Low Downforce 962 (at least when i tried them yesterday night on the beta) and i didn't tried the f-junior, caddy dpi or copa montana damage model, but i assume they haven't being touched either considering the focus of previous updates on the beta, and the F-hitech gen 2 model 1 couldn't lose front or rear wing, but again didn't tested that car yesterday, (it already have body deformation and scratches though)

After the update drops I'll probably do a video on my brazilian yt channel about it so I'm not sure I'll have the time to test the damage model of the cars, cuz my time is a bit limited today, due to a lot of upcoming tests on the university this upcoming week

 

love this thread! simulation damage is a must for real simmers

 

I want to thank you for this game, I really enjoy it,

but I have noticed that when I play against the AI, the full or maximum damage, the damage suffered by the AI is not equal to the damage suffered by the player, I would like to know if in possible updates this aspect will be balanced which is very important for simulation

thank you so much

 

To save me both time and sanity, is there anyone with knowledge of what makes up the mechanical damage highlighted below?

I'd like to know
- What the number represents (i.e, a percentage?)
- What is its scale (i.e. 1 - 100?) and if at all possible,
- What, if there is one is a critical number to stay below?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

All the best
Andy

 

-Percentage from 0 to 100
- Generally if you stay below 50 the engine will not deliver less power, but as you go higher engine power will decrease. Also the higher the number the more likely it is to suffer mecanical issues, AFAIK. If you want to see that number go up, pick Formula classic gen1, boost presure to 100% and in a couple of laps the engine will be gone.

 

Responses like that are what make this community so great. Thank you very much