AMS2 v1.6.9: Physics & Time Trial Issues

Hello all,
I'd like to make some feedback / criticism on AMS2 v1.6.9.x regarding car/driving-physics (often impossible to recover car aka regain car-control regardless of user-input when in real sports- and racing-cars it's documented to be possible and how)..
Also I have some questions regarding time-trial in AMS2 (driving-assists used, car-setup used, spectate-mode for ghosts, detection of cutting resp. gaining an advantage etc.).

Being e.g. officially a system-engineer and IT-professional and racing in car racing-simulations on PC for about 25years - since 2,5years with a Fanatec DirectDrive-wheel the F. Clubport-Pedals V3, F. ClubSport Shifter v1.5 and F. Advanced Paddle Module and F. Button Module for Endurance-Racing - and watched just about every english or german TV-show or Youtube-channel on sports cars etc. or car-engineering of the last 20 years, having recently looked up information on real sports- and racing-car behavior at or even over the limit, I've verified that in AMS2 v1.6.9.x it's often it's simple impossible to recovery/catch the car when in real sports- and racing-cars it's definitely possible and documented how this is possible/done. This is independent if your currently on dry asphalt without bumps, and since it's verified that and how it's possible to recover a racing-car resp. regain control when you briefly lost car-control and I've done exactly the things that work in real life it's also not a skill-issue resp. an OSI-Layer8 problem.

One case/scenario where in AMS2 1.6.9 where I verified it's always impossible to recover/catch the car is in every car with h-gearbox resp. manual clutch during downshifts (rev-matching etc.). I'm sure in that regard AMS2 v1.6.9 uses a fixed script / program-code section that once it's triggered to run (case/condition met) it effectively ignores every user-input and you always spin resp. can't regain control no matter what you do.
Here a small excerpt of a chat with a current LLM from Anthropic regarding this issue (Claude Sonnet):
My input: While of course I know you have to do / learn rev-matching in downshifts in cars like the Caterham Supersport who uses an classic h-gearbox with clutch-pedal since otherwise the engine resp. the rev-discrepancy acts as strong engine-brake for the often rear wheel only driven wheels of sport-cars etc., is in real life for sports-cars and/or racing-cars any chance / possibility to counteract the strong engine-braking due to insufficient pressed clutch-pedal or lacking rev-matching when you almost instantly noticed your downshift - usually near corner-entry - was somehow messed up?
At least AMS2 v1.6.9.x effectively ignores every input once a messed-up downshift happened - One can try everything from pressing the clutch-pedal stronger, countersteer even before the cars actually starts to spin, try to stabilize the car by throttle or brake or everything combined - the cars rear always steps out and you spin, sometimes even unnoticeable at first, because you actually want the car steer into the direction the car started to spin to, but then the cars simply continues to spin and you end up in the wrong direction.
Claude Sonnets response:
Recovery options from a messed-up downshift in real life
This is genuinely one of the most discussed topics in real racing driver coaching, and the short answer is: your window to recover is very small but not zero, and it depends almost entirely on how quickly you recognize it and where you are in the corner.
Real-world recovery options, in rough order of effectiveness:
1. Instantly dip the clutch again — if you catch it within a fraction of a second, before the rear actually steps out, pressing the clutch again removes the engine braking load from the rear wheels. This is the primary recovery tool and is used instinctively by experienced drivers. The window is very short — probably 0.2-0.3 seconds maximum before the slide becomes established.
2. Heel-toe / blip while recovering — some very experienced drivers can simultaneously blip the throttle to match revs while already countersteering, effectively trying to close the engine braking gap while managing the slide.
3. Controlled opposite lock — once the rear is actually out, countersteering becomes necessary. But on a car with no TC and a rear snap caused by engine braking (rather than power oversteer), the rear can come back hard and cause a snap-oversteer reversal ("tank slapper"), which is very hard to catch.
4. Accept the slide and manage it — if close to the apex with speed scrubbed, sometimes the best outcome is to widen the exit line and let the car settle rather than fighting it.

But AMS2 v1.6.9 often also effectively seems to ignore every user-input when you lost control for a brief moment in other cases/scenarios - e.g. when accelerating at corner-exit at the limit and the car for some reason suddenly starts to spin etc..

And a few question regarding time-trial in AMS2 v1.6.9 (authentic driving-assists + car-setup used + ghost / spectate-mode + cutting / track-limits):
-In/for time trial AMS2 v1.6.9 displays the type of controller, if a ghost for a time is available and if a car-setup from the user for this combination of car and track-variant has been uploaded.
But there is no information at all if that time has been achieved with anything other than authentic driving assists resp. on driving-aids in general, if manual clutch or auto-clutch has been used, and also no information at all on car-damage settings or fuel-use.
-And regarding the car-setup in time-trial: Can anybody verify if the car-setup available for download in time-trial from an opponent has been actually used for the displayed time resp. that it's not just any setup the user/opponent somewhen has uploaded for combination of car and track-variant?
-Also I'd like to say the spectate-mode for ghosts in time-trial of AMS2 1.6.9 is almost entirely useless, because in reality you can only use it to watch the line an user/opponent took and an rough estimation of the current speed. This is because there is no car-audio at all, the digital displays don't work, and even the RPM-indicator built into the car doesn't work.. And at least in the Caterhams in AMS2 the speed-indicator built into the dashboard is only partly visible (view-angle etc.) and only displays MPH and not KPH I'm using in every racing-simulation.
-And also can anybody verify that AMS2 v1.6.9 in time-trial regarding cutting / getting an advantage / track-limits is not using anything other than a simple off-track detection that disregards any cause or effect it had when you were for a brief moment over what it considers the track-limits (e.g. you lost control and tried to regain control and in the process lost a large amount of time etc.., braked when you unintentionally cut a corner to much etc..)?

 

AI has its use cases, but asking it about very specific things about a niche game certainly won't get you anywhere since it can't haven stolen useful information about that from anywhere.

As always with issues it would be really appreciated if you could provide videos where your issue happens showcasing how you try to catch the car and nothing happens. I honestly think AMS2 is of the few things where you can actually catch the cars quite reliable when you lost grip since the FFB is telling you that really early so you can react fast. In other sims I struggle much more with just having to look how you car slowly loses its control with measures like counter steering rarely working

 

Is this a long winded way of saying, the physics in V1.6.9.x make catching oversteer on aggressive corner entry almost impossible? If so, I would agree that to be true. I even pointed it out when V1.6.x 1st came out. The handling at the limit felt unrealistic and cars were too hard to drive at the limit. You ended with uncatchable lazy slides, aka not realistic.

However, with V1.6.9.5, certain cars have gotten the new V1.7 physics. I have to say, those cars' handling is almost perfection. Driving the cars on V1.7 physics feels super intuitive and natural. If you haven't tried those cars yet, I would strongly recommend you try them out before passing judgement.
The following cars are the ones running V1.7 physics:
LMDh / GTP, LMP2 (both gens). GT1, 2005 LMP1 / LMP2 / GT1 / GT2, P1 (both), P2, P3, P4, GTE, GT3 (both), GT4, GT5, GT Open, Porsche Cup, Super V8, G55 Supercup, G40 Supercup, Lambo Diablo ST, Lambo Huracan ST, Ligier EuroSeries, Lancer Cup, Copa Classic & Copa Uno.
You'll notice these cars are easy to drive at the limit and if you end up spinning them, then it's totally on you and the same exact thing would happen IRL.

 

Both of your responses make it obvious both of you have read only a small excerpt of what I actually wrote and asked, and therefore only "answered" worse than just off-topic etc..
1st: I have not asked Claude on a niche game (and if AMS2 is a niche racing-game is debatable), but on behavior of real sports-cars and racing-cars regarding downshifts resp. rev-matching in cars with h-gearboxes resp. manual clutch, which were common for decades before the first computer racing-simulations around 1990 even were created
2nd: unlike many I can actually make a qualified decision on what I use any LLM for knowing all their characteristics and how they function etc. since e.g. system-engineering the IT-Infrastructure of Enterprises is what I do for a living..
3rd: Actually I think at least for my needs resp. that I'm looking for in a car racing-simulation AMS2 especially when the singleplayer-career finally is available overall it's the best racing-simulation currently available, but that doesn't mean I don't have criticsm on AMS2 regarding that it's apparently impossible to recover a car when you messed up the clutch-usage resp. rev-matching during downshifts even when you almost instantly noticed it and counteract by anything proven to work in real-life sports- and race-cars.
Also non of my questions regarding time-trial have been answered on-issue (used driving-assists not displayed in time-trial, auto-clutch or manual clutch not displayed, damage-settings and fuel-usage not displayed, almost pointless spectate-mode for ghosts since almost nothing works including car-audio or RPM-indicator etc..).

 

Is the Assetto Corsa Ai telling us how to drive cars properly?
Never felt the issue personally and i only really drive H pattern cars (in most Sims) and I'm not a slow or bad driver.