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AMS2 vs AMS1 Physics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JS1, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    I've only played AMS2 for an hour or two at most but with the limited time of playing i'm finding the physics feel more like an arcade game than a simulator----compared to AMS1.

    For example you can floor the accelerator instantly in the F1 based cars(i have only tried the V10 and Ultimate) without losing the backend coming out of slow corners, it is a struggle to get wheel spin, it is a struggle to even lock up the brakes and cornering too sharply is not punished either.(yes i'm aware with F1 cars a lot of pressure should be applied for braking but even so it is still hard to lock up at present)

    Also the cars feel like they are self correcting to the point you don't feel proud of yourself for keeping the car in control, it feels like you are always driving with assists.(i play with all assists off)

    In AMS1 you have to feather the accelerator and brakes, gradually turn into corners and there is no way in hell you can floor the accelerator instantly and not lose the backend.

    Yes i understand that making a sim harder to play is not necessarily a more accurate simulator but at the moment i think the game has gone too far the other way.

    Already lost the enthusiasm to explore all the other content as something feels fundamentally flawed in the game---back to AMS1 i guess.
     
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  2. neal

    neal Active Member Reiza Backer

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    You should refund!
     
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  3. BrunoB

    BrunoB Member

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    @JS1
    Im absolutely not a blind fanboy of AMS2 but comming from Raceroom and iRacing I can say that some of the (rather few) cars I have used intensively in AMS2 is absolutely great in the balance between being too easy to slide out and being able to control the car perfectly on the edge playing with the throttle(IMO).

    Generally the TM in iRacing is not worth using words on - and the TM even in some of my favorite cars in Raceroom had a tendency to suddenly go from controllable to picnic time.
    Im not an amateur in this kind of game but eventhough I topped many LBs in Racerooms F90xx and the Group Cs I was never as confident with the TM behaviour as I am in my 2 favorite cars in AMS2.

    My favorite in AMS2 is the open top P2 but specially the F-Reiza which in my oppinion has the absolutely best TM compromise of any sim car I have ever tried.
    The only other formel car that comes close to the F-Reiza is the FR3.5 in rF2 - which is great eventhough the Reiza car will get my vote.

    ByTheWay: Please Reiza dont ever mess with the TM for the F-Reiza. It is so fu** great that it can only be a downgrade if you change anything.:)
     
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  4. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    Owned the game for too long for that, plus because i enjoyed AMS1(i hardly played that also but only due to not being a big gamer and lacking time---still love it though) i have some confidence things will improve.

    But it does worry me that the developers may think the physics on display now is better than AMS1 and keep going along this path in development.

    I mean something as simple as flooring the accelerator with no wheel spin is a major oversight from a stand still or coming out of slow corners, even for an early stage game.
     
  5. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    No idea what TM is(guessing throttle modulation) and LB's are.(annoys me when people just assume away)

    Flooring the accelerator instantly with zero wheel spin in first gear on a F1 car doesn't seem right to me.
     
  6. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    TM = tire model
    LB = leaderboards

    AMS2 will get better, it'll be an ongoing development process for the coming years, and cars' suspensions & tires are getting finetuned all the time. You shouldn't force yourself to play something you don't like, but if I were you I'd check back every so often to see what has improved and one day you may start liking something. This is what it was for me with rF2.
     
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  7. BrunoB

    BrunoB Member

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    Constructive comment.:)
    And maybe test some other cars out in AMS2.

    Because there is absolutely some of the cars in AMS2 at the moment which have a behaviour that has probably absolutely nothing to do with with how the same car behaves in RL.
    Or as any car in RL does behave for that matter.:rolleyes:

    And if I should rate AMS2 solely on these cars background then AMS2 would be rated as the absolutely worst commercial racing game at the moment.:D

    ByTheWay: RL = real life.
     
  8. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I'd suggest taking a bit more time and trying a few more cars, you might alter your opinion. Also check your TC settings.
     
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  9. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    All assists are off, i never drive with assists.

    The disappointing aspect of this is one would think the first thing you would make sure of on a F1 car being programmed for a Sim is the ability to not plant your foot down on the accelerator to 100% without major wheel spin and losing the back end, especially coming out of a slow corner.

    Not expecting a sim to be like real life, but some elements should resemble/reflect the difficulty of real life control of the vehicle---this is a major oversight.

    Yes i think many sims get it wrong with high speed cornering as there is so much down-force the car is glued to the ground but low speed is a different story.
     
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  10. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    Will give the game more time, it's only fair with such a small team and Covid not helping.

    In saying that slightly improved graphics with cardboard figure crowds and lifeless surrounds basically makes the game no different to AMS1 minus the better handling we get in AMS1 along with mods.

    I still think Sims should work on a better offline championship mode(they all come across as an after thought) and maybe some technical gaming challenges to understand the dynamics of tweaking the settings and control of the car---like a tutorial on appreciating the technical side by going through some challenges. This will help new players appreciate the game more and gain a better understanding on what each tuning tweak achieves, also helps in getting players to program the buttons and practice using them with the incentive of challenges.
     
  11. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Active Member

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    OP, you must just be good, I can spin the open wheelers and lock their brakes up easily, in fact tonight I ran some laps tonight in the current gen F1 machinery and was regularly locking the brakes and in one of the early 90's gen f1's put TC up to high to keep it pointing in the right direction.
     
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  12. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Active Member

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    I agree that some cars (not all), seems to have too much longitudinal grip compared with lateral grip. This miscorrelation create what you said, difficulties to lock tires on braking and be able to floor the throttle without wheelspin even while driving very powefull cars. On the other side, some cars seem to lose the rear very easy, spining the rear tires just pushed by the inertia.

    I hope that Reiza have this behaviour on the list of things to revise.
     
  13. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I don't particularly drive the modern F1-alikes much, but there are plenty of brilliant cars to drive in AMS2, definitely take some time to get to know it.
     
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  14. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Member

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    The SETA tire model is trash. I'm sticking with AMS1, AC, and ACC.

    My hope is that since SMS has been bought out, ME won't be available to license for AMS3. Then we might see a return to decent physics. But that's years down the road. :(
     
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  15. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I believe that opinion is divided on the matter :whistle:
     
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  16. Jugulador

    Jugulador Member

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    Gabriel Casagrande, that is a pro driver on a real category represented ingame explained how AMS2 physics are way ahead from AMS1. There is also a great video by Niels Heusinkveld talking exactly about that. I'll leave both for you (Niels's is in English and Gabriel's is in Portuguese).





    RESUME: AMS2 is far from being an arcade/simcade game. Maybe some cars leave some to be desired, but overall it's at least on par with rF2 and ahead of ACC, IMHO.
     
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  17. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    Watched a little of Niels video before and to me at times he seemed to be wording his replies in a way to not offend anyone at AMS2(i think Niel worked on AMS1(not sure in what capacity) so i feel maybe he is sticking up for the team a little to be nice and protect future work.

    Just drove the Brazilian stock car, once again i floor the brakes trying to simulate a newbie to sim racing and other than seeing some smoke in the rear view mirror the car just slows down without the fear of losing control, then when it almost comes to a stop you get a touch of minor sideways movement. (maybe it is like this for real)

    I was playing a track i have never played before cornering at all the wrong times at the wrong speeds and overly aggressive and not once did i feel like i would lose control, everything seems savable when you lose grip----there never feels like that moment it will go over the edge.

    Trust me i barely play more than 10 hours a year---i never play long enough to be a great driver(but relative to the time i put in i probably do pretty good), i hardly tweak setups because i haven't taken the time to understand most and i rarely program buttons on my G27 for added options during racing yet i feel way too comfortable in these cars and can keep lapping without making a mistake.

    I go back to AMS1 and i know i will spin off if i try something silly beyond my capabilities, and if i floor the accelerator instantly from low speed in F1 cars i will be punished all the time---AMS2 i have to keep reminding myself it wont spin out of control and get the AMS1 mentality out of my head.

    I must admit the road feel in the stock car is enjoyable and even to a lesser extent with the F1 cars i have tried but other than that it feels too safe to drive.

    I hear many pro race drivers say cars are easier to drive than most sims make out, so maybe AMS2 is closer to the mark--- but for someone of my very average racing abilities i shouldn't be able to race around a track i don't know and not make a mistake.
     
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  18. traind

    traind Member Reiza Backer

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    Tire models are really tricky. The AMS2 model shines in being controllable over the limit of grip. But that comes at the expense of feeling maybe it is a bit too controllable. It still takes skill to be fast. Each sim leans one way or the other in this regard and none are perfect. AMS2 leans toward the controllable end of the spectrum and you'll either appreciate that or not, depending on your personal preference and expectations.

    As far as braking feel... I do think there is something to your feedback. Braking at the limit without ABS should be more demanding than it feels in AMS2. Locking the fronts and getting the rear unstable doesn't seem to happen. Or if it happens, it is very infrequent. I have no idea why this would be the case in AMS2 but it does feel that way to me. Maybe we have ABS on and don't know it?

    But this is different than controlling oversteer mentioned above... the braking feel seems to be too far on the easy side of the spectrum to be realistic. I can imagine the controllable grip at and over the limit under throttle being very close to accurate for some cars, but I have a hard time imagining threshold braking is this stable in real life for full on race cars.
     
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  19. tlsmikey

    tlsmikey Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I sadly have to agree with the OP. AMS1 is one of my all time favorite sims. It checks all the boxes for me and was just amazing to drive. Would that tire model be as successful today for me as it was when it was released.....maybe....but I do think there are other sims that have pushed the development of what is expected from a tire model.

    There is something off with AMS2 in the physics. Cars are abnormally bouncy at times, the tires slip and recover almost on their own. It's really hard to place, but they look realistic in video replays....it's just the feel from the wheel feels off.
     
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  20. Jugulador

    Jugulador Member

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    Maybe you have assists turned on, are a jedi or are simply slower than you imagine, because BRSC in AMS2 is way harder to drive than, for example, GT3 on ACC. BTW, even with assists off, the Ginetta G55 is way harder to control in AMS2 than in ACC (even with assists off).

    Your story simply don't mach with how the game really behave.
     
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  21. BrunoB

    BrunoB Member

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    Fully agree.
    The description of both the throttle and brake behaviour is either some trolling or (as mentioned by others) caused by one or more aids being active.

    ByTheWay: The comments about Niels Heusinkvelds hidden aganda of preserving some kind of future "work" does reveal itself for what it is. :rolleyes:
     
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