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AMS2 vs AMS1 Physics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JS1, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. BrunoB

    BrunoB Active Member

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    @JS1
    Being only slightly sarcastic I would say that if you can control these cars fully on both throttle and braking after so few hours of practice - then then you are able destroy most of the AMS2 leaderboards.
    Because I have trouble controlling both throttle and braking but is anyway able to challenge at least some of the F-Reiza LBs
    - so you must be able to execute some fullblown massacre here if you just tried.

    So from now on I promise I will be looking for your initial on the leaderboards - OK? :)
     
  2. traind

    traind Member Reiza Backer

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    Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make them a troll. I bought in early to AMS2 and I can tell you that there were many of these comments early on in the Reiza 51 lounge. Many challenges to the early FFB and feel of the title. Reiza made changes and it improved. Still work to be done in some areas as with all simulations I am sure. And I think Niels was likely a little guarded in his comments, which makes perfect sense due to his friendship and business relationship with the guys from Reiza.
     
  3. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Member

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    No, it's your assertion that's the opposite of reality. The G55 in AMS2 can be slung around willy-nilly and the tires and back end of the car are magically able to go back to center without a loss of control. In ACC, the car will spin around if it's driven that way. Spins can be saved in ACC, but not when the car is being driven like it's in an arcade game. AMS2 encourages arcade driving.
     
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  4. Jugulador

    Jugulador Active Member

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    It's just your opinion, mate.

    The only pro driver (Gabriel Casagrande... and he evaluated his own car on a track he won a race) that evaluated AMS2 physics (that I posted the video) praised the game exactly because of how much you can regain control just with steering inputs. I strongly believe that he had more knowledge about driving that us, is a lad used to sim racing and he is no fan of Reiza (he hated AMS1), so I will give him, not you, some trust.

    PS: If you think AMS2 is an arcadish game, maybe you are racing with assists or simply are too slow.

    Cheers!
     
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  5. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Member

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    Casagrande is a shill.

    And just maybe you don't know what the **** you're talking about.
     
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  6. BrunoB

    BrunoB Active Member

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    No - and thats exactly the reason I said either trolling or running with aids enabled.

    But why do you guys who believe that AMS2 is soo enourmously arcadish because the cars are soo unrealistic easy to control show what you can do with these easy cars.
    Show it to all us others on some of the AMS2 leaderboards.
    It should be piece of cake for you to top some of the leaderboards - OK?
    Or is it only some empty and fluffy words?:whistle:
     
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  7. tlsmikey

    tlsmikey Active Member Reiza Backer

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    There's clearly a good number of folks that like the physics and there's clearly a group that dislike it. The one thing that is concerning at the moment is that there is more content for AMS2 than for AMS1 and yet the steam charts show Automobilista 1 as having more users per day.

    Why is this? Is it physics? Graphics? Sound? There has to be a reason. I'm gonna say its the ffb and physics at this point but i'm sure opinions will vary.
     
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  8. Helleno

    Helleno Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Come on, boys... let's keep the talk in a productive way? I am sure everyone here have the same objective, to have the best of AMS2 to play at the end of the day. It's ok to disagree but at least lets ensure we are talking about the same thing. I can see you are talking about two complete different experiences with the same car, don't you think worth to check if its really the same or some kind of bug? Why one can push everthing around like having assists on when it is off and others report can't do the same with the same car? Is it because difference of skills? Is it because different stering inputs? I don't know, it can be anything. So, why don't you make a quick video with the same car/track combo showing input graphics to compare what is going on? After that, if you realize you really are expecting two complete different things about what the game should deliver, then you release your krakens. :p
     
  9. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    Because AMS1 is an established title that's been around for years, has been finished, refined and polished. They have mods in AMS1, some run leagues. New things are always challenging, either because it feels different, looks or sounds different, or because it just doesn't work as well, which AMS2 at this point obvioulsy doesn't because it's a WIP.

    Getting people away from what they know and like to something new is not an easy task. That's why people still play World of Warcraft, and why there are still new speedrunning records for Dark Souls 1, James Bond on the N64 and the old Doom games.

    Not to discount anybody's experience, but whenever there was somebody in the Assetto Corsa forums who had a completely different driving experience than the thousands of other players (in AC mostly "understeer" and "no grip"), in all cases I followed it was either overdriving, wrong FOV or faulty hardware. COuld be the same here. Maybe the throttle pedal doesn't go 100%. Maybe OP only steps on it when he's well out of a corner and the car is already settled. I know I have spun loads of times in both the F-Ultimate and F-V10 coming out of tight corners, so like you said, a video showing control inputs and the wheel would be best.
     
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  10. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    1)I don't use these initials plus i hardly play so don't do many time trials(the few i do i play for 30mins to an hour with not much interest and usually get in the top 30 easily with little effort.)
    2) Destroying times is more about knowing the tracks well(which i hardly do--still look at the maps for most) hitting the apex, knowing the best braking points distance wise and smooth entry and exit, you can have all the driving skills in the world and still have poor times.
     
  11. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    I'm complaining in the opposite way you are describing, i'm saying AMS2 F1 Ultimate and V10 are way too easy to drive now and have very questionable physics---your point is valid about over driving and control inputs if i was saying AMS2 is harder, but this is not the case.
     
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  12. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    Yeah but my point is, maybe you're underdriving, because in many situations, accelerating out of corners full throttle in those cars lead to me spinning or at least nearly loosing it. Going full throttle when the car is already settled and no longer turning ususally doesn't cause any problems. Like said above, a video of you driving, showing your settings and your inputs will probably be the only way forward here.
     
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  13. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    No idea how to record gaming videos and upload to YouTube nor does it interest me.

    For example the slow hair pin at Montreal, you can floor the accelerator out of that corner without losing it or generating barely any wheel spin, you can also floor the brakes and turn in without losing the back end in basically any corner, or even going down gears too fast entering a corner you don't lose the back end "as easily" as AMS1.

    Applying the brakes during turn in should promote some over steer as the load on the front wheels helps with turn in, in AMS 2 it makes zero to little difference if you brake or not during turn in(in relation to the F1 cars i have sampled)

    F1 cars from what i have seen are very hard to control during low speed cornering especially with cold tyres due to the reduced down force and less grip.
     
  14. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    If my issues were spread over other sims i would agree with you, but i only have this issue with AMS 2.

    Either way going from basically slow motion to flooring the accelerator there never really is that much wheel spin---for cars that are that powerful i find it hard to believe.

    Also just to reiterate to other readers i don't play with any assists on.
     
  15. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    Easy to control and good lap times don't always come together if you barely know the track and correct braking points or lines to use from prolonged practice sessions.
     
  16. JS1

    JS1 New Member

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    Not saying he has a hidden agenda, the video i was referring to was his AMS 2 test drive video and he "politely" gave constructive criticism about the handling and physics but always downplayed his view point as "maybe AMS 1 got it wrong" or " the front end should load up under braking and cause over steer when turning but maybe AMS 1 had too much etc etc, he mentioned other issues also but tried to remain balanced( and in my opinion partly because you don't go hard on friends and two you can easily burn bridges if you are too blunt)

    He mentioned the issues so Neil is not a sell out but he went "constructively soft" that is for sure, wording his replies in a way to read between the lines of what he wasn't really happy with. (in my opinion)

    Love Neils videos by the way and have nothing against the guy.

    Second video i didn't watch, if he is Portuguese there might be a "support my countrymen vibe" angle that i probably wouldn't take seriously anyway.
     
  17. BrunoB

    BrunoB Active Member

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    No and thats exactly the problem with people who either are not able to drive a car so close to the borders of its grip and adhesion "envelope" that the laptimes get really fast - or dont want to because they have another agenda.
    Because all of us can drive around on a track we dont really know and feel uber relaxed with the cars "dull" or "arcadish" behaviour if we drive with a speed like our grandma would have driven.:whistle:
    And use of a sim for such relaxed cruise playing is ofcourse ok if you are that kind of person.
    But not many sim drivers would ever rate a car or a sim based on such grandma-ish test of the sim.:cool:

    ByTheWay: Instead of all your defensive words why dont you just take this as a challenge showing all us idiots :D that you really are able to show the AMS2 cars arcadish behaviour while pressing the cars to the edge of their "envelope" (= setting fast laptimes)?;)
     
  18. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    I tried that just now. Since you mentioned the V10 in your OP, I used that car. So The F-V10 at Montreal, dry, sunny, midday, stock setup, 5 flying laps + 1 lap at the beginning to warm up the tires.

    Going through the hairpin and accelerating out like I would do usually, but flooring the throttle instead of modulating, I spun out every single lap... with assists on authintic and TC at 20% which is quite a lot.

    Afterwards I disabled assists in the gameplay settings, and did the same scenario again. This time, unsurprisingly, I spun out again every single lap, but sooner. I also kept loosing the rear out of basically every 2nd gear corner around the track when flooring the throtte, with and wothout assists.

    So basically, if you can't spin the V10 up out of the hairpin without assists, something is wrong at your end. You're either only accelerating one the car is straight again after the corner, or you're going through the hairpin in 3rd gear, or your pedals aren't calibrated.

    There is no more discussion to be had until you show some proof of your assertions.

    EDIT: Reading over my post again, it just occurred to me: Have you disabled assists in the gameplay settings, or are you setting TC to 0% in the setup menu?
     
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  19. Helleno

    Helleno Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Well... So, I think your point is noted by devs and others and this is how far we can go. Actually, maybe I would agree with you in some points once I indeed have this feeling that RF2 formula cars, today, represents a most believable behaviour of what would happen if I (zero real racing experience) jump in a F1 car to throw some fast laps, and by feeling I am talking about results and behaviour of the car under my inputs (thats my personal feeling and I never drived a formula car in my life). In other hand, your words looks like completely off to me when you say its a completely arcadish game and that you can squeeze the throttle and brakes all the way with no punishment. Actually I can spin the formula cars I tried very easily if I do what you are talking you are doing, driving on my limit. I drive most Stock Car 2020 now and 2019 before with the same result, to me its a car that punishes overdriving. So, we have a comunication failure here, I don't know If we are talking about the same thing once your words does not reflect what I am doing/seeing. Maybe I am just nobbie while driving (very likely, I would put my bets here :p). Maybe your words are exacerbated, maybe other words are too soft about the problem. Maybe one thousand things... or maybe people are really expecting two different things about the game. Anyway, at this point, with no way to directly compare results, the best to do is to express our thinking (as you did) and give some time to Reiza work on, hoping our opinion is noted and hoping they didn't forgived how to make a good sim and they make the best choices about what direction to follow.

    Cheers
     
  20. Helleno

    Helleno Active Member Reiza Backer

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    This is very important once TC percentage is about how much slip is alowed so 0% means no slip alowed and 100% means total slip alowed. (Completely conterintuitive in my opinion)
     
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