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AMS2 vs Other Sims

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by InfernalVortex, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    Guys, I am relatively new to modern sim racing...

    I spent most of my youth racing sim days playing rFactor and Grand Prix Legends... with a lot of silly arcade games like Need for Speed and Sports Car GT and Grid thrown in.

    Since I jumped back into it this year... I have tried:

    1. Assetto Corsa
    2. rFactor 2
    3. AMS 2
    4. Raceroom

    I dont have much interest in ACC because I like retro cars, and I like single seater open wheel cars a lot. I enjoy sports cars too, just not as much as the other things. So the idea of high downforce, paddle shifted modern GT3 cars is... I dont know, I can take it or leave it.

    The only games left i think I need to try are PC2 and iRacing, but Niels' video about iRacing's inability to allow for any control with any amount of slip angle kind of annoyed me away from it. Maybe I should reconsider at some point with the amount of fun Ive been having racing online in AMS2... thanks @Damian Baldi , @Marius H , @Koala63, @Andy-R !!!

    I know we are all fans, that's why we are here, but the amount of criticism I see going around, and the amount of frustratin I have with certain things here....

    After playing the games in the above list... the only game even close to being as fun as AMS2 is Assetto Corsa. rF2 has amazing physics, but the UI is just SO bad. It's absolutely awful. The content is limited, the graphics are terrible, the play modes are even more limited than the UI, and it's just an overall frustrating experience. If it werent for the physics and the force feedback, I would have ignored rF2 a long time ago. Unfortunately in VR rF2 gives me some mild but tangible level of discomfort.

    Assetto Corsa with mods, and content manager, and a lot of extra effort looks really nice and is pretty fun and has a healthy multiplayer, but it lacks leaderboards and I dont like the AI much, and it doesnt seem to get as much online attention for any of the cars I care about. But at least it looks good, works well, and has decent VR support even if it's a little clunky.

    But AMS2, despite the criticism, especially when played in VR, is so superior to these other games I've tried it's unbelievable to me. All it needs is polish and refinement. I dont think it's genre redefining, but dang if it isnt the best experience I've had by a huge margin! The UI is so much better, even some of it is glitched/broken/labeled incorrectly. The TT mode is fantastic. I've missed that ever since Forza Motorsport 4 that had it. The cars are all gorgeous and feel great.

    The only physics criticisms I have are 1. The weight transfer front to rear seems a little under-represented on some of the more softly sprung cars. I find that disconcerting. 2. It may be a little too eager to jump into wild oversteer compared to other games... .but with 2, I kind of wonder if this is actually more realistic? I cant feel the g-forces, so it's hard to say.

    But now, after the hockenheim update, even the AI seems pretty impressive. The game is overall fantastic, with a large collection of Achilles' heels that may or may not be addressed... but I think even if they don't, I'll be playing for a long time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  2. Micropitt

    Micropitt Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. Before coming to AMS2, I tried RaceRoom, iRacing, AC and ACC. I ditched all of them for AMS2. With AMS2 I was introduced to so many new racing series, tracks and exceptional good physics that it convinced me to keep it as my only sim.
    Learning about the Brazilian Racing scene really widened my horizon and I enjoy it.
     
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  3. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Active Member Reiza Backer

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    The only other sim I play is rF2, not in VR but maxed out in 4K on a single 27" monitor. It looks stunning with the latest official content and graphical updates. UI is non-problem as I'm so used to it and it is fast to operate (unlike the new web UI). IMHO it is the best at this time in term of physics and FFB. Still a huge AMS2 fan, with its distinctive content it offers and more.
     
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  4. neal

    neal Active Member Reiza Backer

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    try the Vintage AC group they run regular weekly races at the weekend with, you guessed it, vintage race cars i.e. cars over 30 years old.
    Here is a sample race and you can get the discord url to join them from there.
     
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  5. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    As a foreword, I drive sims mainly for the experience of driving a simulated car. I like to feel the handling, find the limit and play around with it. I do some time trials here and there, but I'm not primarily about competition, I'm in it for the fun factor. Basically I like to fart around in old cars.

    I have mainly been playing AMS2 since the beta released, but I've also been getting back into ACC a bit since the GT4 pack was released. Those cars bring some life into ACC that just wasn't there for me before. Like @InfernalVortex I also like retro cars more than the modern ones.

    Apart from AMS2 I love AC for its variety and FFB. it's the one I played most since I got back into Simracing in 2013, and I have over2300 hours in it. It's just that any car that could possibly exist, it has been modded into AC, and that's the big selling point for me.

    I'm switching between those two mainly.

    I do like rF2 and R3E, but they both offer basically nothing that is interesting to me, that isn't in AC and AMS2 already, although I play rF3 from time to time to go a few hours around Sebring, Portland or Le Mans, and R3E for the DTM classics and the Formula Ford that isn't quite there yet in AMS2 I feel.

    iRacing is not for me. I don't like the car's behavior and i basically never race online.

    There still are some things in AMS2 that need to be fixed, mor to be improved and a lot to be fine tuned, and I think all of them are already well documented here and probably also in some sort of never ending to do list somewhere on Renato's desk.
     
  6. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Active Member

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    I don't use to jump from a sim to another. When I play a sim I play it for years in a competitive way, I don't like to move between different platforms.

    After many old Amiga500 and early PC games, GPL was the first simulator I tried. I played GPL for many years and I've been beta tester of the MOD 65, then moved to GTP of TeamRedLine (N2003 mod), then rfactor 1 and rfactor 2, and now AMS2. I can't say much about iRacing and AC, I tried both just for some laps on friend's computers. AC had great graphics compared with rf1 and 2, but the physics didn't hooked me. Where I live nobody can pay iRacing, so there is no point about buy it even if I could.

    I think nobody could talk in absolute words about a SIM. Each one wants and looks for different experiences in different moments and that's what I will talk about.

    GPL blowed my mind even before I have it, when I saw an article in a spanish magazine called Micromania (back in 1999). I started playing it offline, had to upgrade my video card to be able to run it, just to realise I have to had a steering wheel. Then I started a very difficult learning curve. Soon later online races started throught VROC and another world emerged (via Dial-UP). GPL gave me the best emotions, races and championships, and the most important, a lot of friends around the world, some whom I actually meet in person.

    GTP was a brilliant idea from Team Red Line, it was based on N2003 and surpased many features of GPL, but most important it allowed endurance racing. I created Team Comet with two guys whom are now two of my best friends, and we made our first endurance championship with some wins/podiums (and Le Mans 24 hs) back in 2005.

    I have spend some years without driving and then started using rfactor1. It was great in many ways but it had some problems too. What it was new, was the amount of different cars to choose from, but it was the main problem too. The modding was a new feature too. The idea was great until two persons wanted different things from the same car and the split begun. Lot of cars, lot of subversions of the same cars and a new thing, cheating. However it was great with some cars, WTCC, Group-C from HSO and the great MOD F1 79 from Reiza.

    Rfactor2.....mixed feelings with this sim. It supossed to be all what rf1 wasn't able to be, but it took too long, it become too complex, and the bussiness plan from S397 was different from the one of ISI. Rfactor2 is the one I better know technically because I spent three years working on physics for two Group-C cars, so I had to pass throught uncounted technical changes, and had to learn a lot. At some point it become obvious that S397 dind't want MODs anymore, so I left it. It's a great game from the physics point of view, but you have to spend too much time trying and download so many differents packages just to join a race. I never found a good championship to race in several years, it was never what rf1 was, anyway we were able to race at some endurance events, including a podium at Le Mans 24hs.

    Now is AMS2 time. For me, AMS2 is the opportunity to relive GPL with Formula-Vintage (maybe the Retro too) and see some old friends from around the world racing together again, that's my only interest in AMS2 now. I don't care any other kind of cars at the moment, I just want to make three or four clicks to set a hosting, invite some friends and drive Vintage cars in 45 minutes races. If I can't do that, AMS2 is unusefull to me.

    As you can read, it's not all about the sim, it's what you want, how much time you are able to spend (to set up the game and train with a car), how much you can or want to pay, and what are your competitors/friends doing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  7. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member Reiza Backer

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    There is RSR live timing if you want leaderboards in AC (assuming it is still going.) I loved that game, spent a lot of time in it hosting/managing servers. It was at its best for me when Minorating (greatest mod ever IMO) was a thing, after we lost that I mostly just did some hotlaps and helped testing some mods and sort of drifted away. Still it is my most played game by a looong way.
     
  8. MaxSleepangle

    MaxSleepangle New Member

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    Whenever I'd wanted to check out lap times there would be few or no, up-to-date (current game version) laps recorded on a given car/track combination. That's the thing many people overlook in the appeal of iRacing. There's 160,000(?) active members and for a current season combination, you'll find laps of some of the fastest, if not the fastest sim racers in the world to compare yourself with. Many iRacers don't race much, but there is a motivation in hot lapping with a target.
     
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  9. F1 Hero

    F1 Hero Member

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    I've been playing racing games since GP Legends too, and I've learned that all racing games have pros and cons, and that we can enjoy them all.

    I think that simracing community is already very fragmented. Many games on the market, and more to come in the future.

    At the moment I only play AC and AMS2. I like AC for the physics and very good multiplayer system. AMS2 for its graphics (the most beautiful graphics I've ever seen on a racing game), excellent immersion I have when playing it on an ultrawide monitor and the well done old F1 cars, my favorites.

    I just wish AMS2 could have a more ortodox physics on Formula cars. They float too much to me. I still have much fun driving them, but I wish they could have a more conventional behavior. Also, AMS2 multiplayer needs a more friendly enviroment: now, for example, we can't even chat while watching others driving.

    Anyway, I think AMS2 is a very good game that already has its place in the simracing world. For the first time in my life I enjoy doing offline races. I was always a multiplayer driver, but AMS2 made me like offline races too, because they are pure fun on this game, due to the fun cars, challenging tracks and great graphics.

    I hope Reiza can solve all the pending issues in the game for it to become even better. I wish AM2 to become a big success.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  10. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member Reiza Backer

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    That seems strange, RSR was wiped a few times and the game version has not changed for a loooong time. There should be plenty with the same game version, they tended to wipe RSR when there were large changes. It has been too long but I don't recall any car that would struggle to compete on there. IIRC 1.09 may have been the last major change with the live axle introduction and RSR got a wipe then... Might be remembering version number wrong.
     
  11. David Wright

    David Wright Active Member Reiza Backer

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    "Float" or "floaty" seems to be a very popular description of handling but as an engineer I am really confused as to what it means. Do you mean the suspension is too soft? Is the car under-damped? Are you actually talking about force-feedback? Not feeling the road surface? I have even read that some cured what they described as a "floaty" feeling by changing the camera settings. Are you really saying this applies to all the Formula cars in AMS2?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  12. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I called the behavior of the cars in PC2 "Boating" because the cars seemed to turn around a central axe, and don't follow the wheels, Perhaps that is what is called floaty,
    AMS2 hasn't the Boating feel for me
     
  13. steelreserv

    steelreserv Active Member

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    “Sim” Racing background: F1 2018, 2019, PC2
    Current: AMS2, ACC

    Single Player: i enjoy setup crafting, TT in AMS2, career in ACC (although its getting less and less appealing). SP races on both titles seem dull to me. Something about racing against AI. The F1 career was vs AI but it was the car development and team progress that kept me interested.
    Multi-player: Depends on if I can find a lobby. I prefer AMS2, but I only drive cars I am comfortable with, which is a limitation and I’ve had maybe one legit race (G55). ACC is fine but can only find a race about 50% of the time when Im able to play.
    Other Sims I would be interested in: iracing, rf2 but dont have the time to justify the $.

    Overall: Im invested in AmS2 and I’ve been keenly interested in it since it was announced. I purchases the season pass after experiencing not only the game, but the way Reiza has been dedicated to updates and fully informing the community every step of the way. It lacks features/polish at this point but I can envision a lot of growth. The driving experience is phenomenal. ACC on the other hand is good fun, immersive and has the polish as two year title should. The cars drive fine but it lacks the feel of AmS2, and seems more dependent on muscle memory. Im not trying to be negative either as I like both in their own way. Just trying to distinguish the differences. I could probably write in more detail about it but I doubt it would be interesting.
     
  14. Koala63

    Koala63 Member

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    Greetings. Sim newbie here with less than one year's sim racing experience, motivated (and probably confused) by over a forty year plus passion of real life driving and road riding and a love for the machines.

    Moving into semi retirement, combined with the gift of a Rift-S from my son, I finally purchased entry level gear last year and got PC2 first, which blew my mind. I soon got AC and immediately tricked it up with Content Manager, Shaders Patch and Sol. PC2 got back-squadded real fast and uninstalled shortly afterward.

    The biggest thing that sim racing revealed to me was a totally new appreciation of what motor racing means. I just sold my last motorbike and can now safely confess to riding really fast for many decades. So I'm not a stranger to speed.... but I have always been able to pick and choose my moments, take breaks and back off when I want. Sim racing allowed me to experience and understand for the first time the colossal mental athleticism and strength of focus and will needed to be a motor racer. Now, after a lifetime's indifference to the actual competitions, I'm hooked on motorsports and have 50 years worth of catch up to do! Thank God for Aidan Millward's Story Time!

    So, now I am fully committed to sim racing a my new long term hobby. I can now go as fast as I want without risking hospital or jail.Yeah! My ultimate goal is to fully engage in online racing, but being an old guy, I am mighty keen not to make a knob of myself and be 'that idiot' wrecking everybody's race at T1. As I slowly work up my skills and confidence, I find offline AI racing is a massively useful way to build my competence - especially last place starts with lower level AI where I can practice moving up through the field without causing carnage.

    And when it comes to AI, IMHO, Rf2 is still the winner for the time being. I don't know how I managed it, but I've finally got it running as smoothly as my AMS2. Every negative thing said about it is true, but... being another vintage/classic open wheeler addict, I still know of no greater offline sim racing fun than completing a last-to-first four lap race on Rf2 Nords against a field of a dozen '67 GPL cars in a Brabham or McClaren. Bloody brilliant! The AI has real personality - right to the point where you know exactly which one you are going to punch after the race.

    But AMS2 is where my sim racing future lies I believe. With the kind help of Infernal Vortex, I have popped my online racing cherry and made my first tentative attempt at participating in one of Damian Baldi's Retro races at Hockenheim historic. I didn't even manage to load enough fuel, and suffered a stutter entering the second chicane and ended up on my side, with no reset button mapped! BUT... what a GREAT race! After crashing, I spectated and watched an absolutely fantastic three lap dice for first place, only decided in the last few turns. Absolutely top racing Damian! I'll be back! And thanks for hosting too.

    AMS2 multiplayer is IMHO, the best by a country mile. For racing, and for a casual drive and chat session with an online friend. So easy! That, combined with the sort of friendly, humble, helpful and like-minded community that is gathering around it, leads me to feel really positive about investing in an AMS2 as a hobby focus for the long term. Reiza seem to be there for the long haul too. I've never been very aware of Brazil, but they're good ambassadors!

    I might die of old age before it arrives, but I've invested part of the proceeds of my last bike into a Fanatec CSW bundle. My TMX wheel has almost fallen apart in under a year, but it has racked up many hundreds of hours and many thousands of virtual miles for a toy, so I'm not angry. But, with more slack than the helm of the Flying Dutchman, its discouraging me from playing any more than I have to to satisfy my minimum 'need for speed' for the time being.

    I'm counting the days until I can fully jump into the AMS2 online scene and not crash into the Fanatec Billboards due to crappy gear. Great game, great community.
     
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  15. BrunoB

    BrunoB Active Member

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    Hey Baldi.
    Back in (maybe) about 2005-7) I participated in a 2.4H LeMans GTP race organized by a Brazilian NR2003 racing league.
    Could you be one of the other about 30 GTP drivers participating in that race?
    I cant remember the name of the league - but the race was great.:)
    There were also a few american guys from the FSB league.:p
     
  16. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Active Member

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    GTP was great. I can't remember if I did any races at Brasil, maybe I did because I'm from Argentina and we used to share some races with our neighbours. But the Le Mans 24hs race from 2005 I was talking about was part of the WOSEC championship hosted by Gareth Hughes.


    WFL4sml.jpg

    About the GPL champsionships, the first championships were called HispanoSim and GPLj, were hosted by Manual Pazo in Venezuela, and it had drivers from US, Mexico, Venezuela, Chile, Uruguay, Argentina and Ecuador. Then we all moved to MyBroga league, driving GPL and later Mod 79.
     
  17. BrunoB

    BrunoB Active Member

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    @Baldi
    GTP cars. Oh those were the days:D

    GTP.jpg
     
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