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Automobilista 2 Custom Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Karsten Hvidberg, May 30, 2020.

  1. Marnus Zwarts

    Marnus Zwarts Member

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    Only the latest Easter Fuktor and the one after.
    3.1 and 3.2 working well, as well as the latest fixed version about 2 or 3 pages back posted by @Karsten Hvidberg
     
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  2. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    Working in the general part with 3.5 EXP... :whistle:

    The OS and US relaxation values also increased quite a bit also ...

    (relax_os_line2_start_y 0.00001)
    (relax_os_pos 0.00300)
    (relax_os_width 0.0200)
    (relax_os_coef -0.020)
    (relax_us_line2_start_y 0.00001)
    (relax_us_pos 0.00200)
    (relax_us_width 0.0100)
    (relax_us_coef -0.010)

    this allowed me to raise the values in game from 65-50-55-55 to 68-58-58-58 (it's a big difference) ... to balance everything with this relaxation curves I had to slightly increase further the center and left unchanged relax_center ... close to the limit of clipping, but fortunately not noticeable on the steering wheel with a little increase of "static_force_reduction_hi_df" ;)
    Kart-part is the same as before

    I just say that I have never had my Logitech so full and informative, I hear practically everything and I hope that the other Logitech owners have the same experience. :)

    Meanwhile Karsten works on his new final file, I would not mind your judgments and feedback (even if negative) so I have more opinions to apply them to the next file ... hoping that @Karsten Hvidberg does not upset the whole functioning of the file, but who will live will see!!! :p

    Logitech G920 and also for G29/G27/G25 (Date 20/04/2021)

    GAIN 68* LFB 58 FX 58 DP 58.

    *In the car setting, use +/- % of Gain for car to taste.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  3. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    Unfortunately these values didn’t transfer to my close to stock t300 file well.

    Just made things a bit delayed and unresponsive.

    But then that’s not unexpected i guess, and
    wasn’t your aim .

    I’ve been playing around with not using tightening anymore and increasing centre full a bit . and still can’t conclude which centering method feels best , as what feels good on one car doesn’t always feel optimal on another.
    neither are bad though and a combo also feels good.
     
  4. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    I am not surprised by the difference in sensation between a G920 and a T300, but not even your first sensation that you experienced, as I was also initially perplexed on my G920 ... the relaxation is abundant and the file needs to be completely recalibrated, especially in the values in game and something in the FFB file.

    If it helps you, I'll bring you my experience based on Logitech:
    - to compensate for the relaxation, in addition to a slight increase in the GAIN and FX sliders, it was necessary to increase the LFB more markedly (which considerably reduces the feeling of vacancy caused by the relaxation itself), moreover, given the variations in the values, I had to re-tune the DP (power stering) to regain coherence on the wheels and on the steering wheel and thus regain the edge sensations;
    - With these assumptions, the feeling is still too soft, so (speaking of the values in the FFB file), I preferred to let the tithening work (consistent calibration on the G920 was not possible for me without it) but you could try to modify the range a little up and especially the falloff down (try low value +/- 1/10 or 2/10 to anticipate the tightening, if i not mistake you use 1/4);
    - Having done the above, I increased the center a little without increasing the center_relax (in your case it could help you lower it) and finally review all the other aspects as usual ... privileging the hardness, the definition and the road effects that go into antagonism with relaxation.

    Thanks @Kuku Maddog for the feedback ;), try if you have time a similar approach, in case it goes back to your previous values ... :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  5. shizraticus

    shizraticus New Member

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    Hey Kuku, don't mean to hijack this thread but I'm new here and can't seem to private message. I realized you are also a fellow T300 owner and would like some help. Been trying to read this thread to find solutions but my head is spinning.

    I noticed the rfuktor file is typically meant for a logitech and was wondering if you could help direct me to a file that is t300 specific?
     
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  6. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    The rFuktor files Karsten posts are generally for all wheels, only stakanov’s tuned files are for Logitech.

    The latest rfuktor 3.5 should be on the first page of thread I think. there’s an older file that I tuned in my profile but it’s not the latest and may have a rain bug .
    edit : now updated
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  7. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    my latest tune ( prob not final but close enough)
    @shizraticus
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    Hey @Kuku Maddog you can try this for your T300??? o_O

    Relax OS

    Original Karsten
    [​IMG]

    Modified curve
    [​IMG]

    Relax US

    Original Karsten
    [​IMG]

    Modified curve
    [​IMG]


    Try to use this curves with thitening or without and with various center and center_relax .... if necessary, adjust the LFB and the DP :whistle:

    (relax_os_line2_start_y -0.008)
    (relax_os_pos 0.0090)
    (relax_os_width 0.0450)
    (relax_os_coef -0.015)

    (relax_us_line2_start_y -0.0008)
    (relax_us_pos 0.0000)
    (relax_us_width 0.0100)
    (relax_us_coef -0.010)
     
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  9. Oka

    Oka New Member

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    Hey @Karsten Hvidberg ! I've been messing with the latest high end file and i have to say im very impressed, and want to leave some feedback. When testing force feedback in a sim i always try to drift first or just generally go over the limit whenever i can. While the wheel self aligns properly at low angles, approaching lock the self aligning simply stops. For example, the street Camaro has 900 degrees, and the self aligning seems to stop just a bit before 720, from there on, it feels like the caster of the car just disappears. Another thing i really like is how the wheel centers back perfectly when straightening out. If you could maybe take a look at self aligning through the whole steering range it would be awesome. If you need some help testing, let me know. Thanks for your work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  10. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    Nice work @Stakanov .
    i didn’t have time to test with tightening, but i inserted it into my current tune , which i’m quite happy with centering. i was able to run a couple of laps with both the lotus 79 and ginetta cup car and it felt very good and intuitive. with clean and fast response.

    I was able to drive with the throttle very nicely and was noticeably inducing less oversteer in early part of corner due to feeling it earlier.
    so generally driving tidier with more accurate control.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  11. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member

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    I have not tested these values on my steering wheel ... from your previous judgment I only imagined that the T300 has a lower tendency to the elastic effect compared to my G920 (which skidding and counter-steering, tends more to toss you first to one side and then on the other) ... so I only applied graphically for the T300 what I did on mine but in a reduced way ... the curves on the G920 are very similar in shape especially in the "Start" position but then much wider, extended and with higher coefficients in the OS ... ;)

    Karsten's curves are NOT wrong in fact they are very correct but I think they are calibrated for HighEND steering wheels and especially for DDs ... if you notice the graphic shapes start concave and then have a hint of convexity before aligning, in the OS below the theoretical line 1: 1 and in the DS above the theoretical line 1: 1 ... it is precisely the different attitude and the different forces that a DD steering wheel has between the central position and the transition to the curve with consequent OS or DS ... difference necessity!!

    The low end, on the other hand, is an elastic potential both in the center and in the curve and when it starts with the OS or the US, it needs a lesser but wider and deeper relaxation and therefore always below the 1:1 line ...
    ALWAYS IF I INTERPRET THE GRAPH AND MATHEMATICS CORRECTLY ... MY LIMIT IS NOT BEING ABLE TO READ THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THE LANGUAGE WITH WHICH THE FILE IS COMPOSED AND SO I GO TO INTUIT!!! :):p

    Anyway @Kuku Maddog , i am very pleased that you like the first impression. If you have any dissatisfaction, you can always play with the tightening, with the GAIN, with the LFB and the DP to find your taste. ;)
     
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  12. Shriukan

    Shriukan Touristenfahrten Community Reiza Backer

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    So theoretical question for you, guys. When the 5-8N.m CSL DD wheelbase comes out, would you use a top tier file because it is tuned for the speed of DDs or the mid file because it might be in better tune for the forces? Asking for future downloads xD
     
  13. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    t
    the file now is generally one size fits all. just minor tweaks for preference. with the most extreme being for the logitech . that new base should be fine with it as it is similar strength to thrustmaster and will just have more fidelity.
    it should be fine as karsten uses a DD wheel and it clearly works for him.
     
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  14. Shriukan

    Shriukan Touristenfahrten Community Reiza Backer

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    Woohoo. Cheers for the reply.
     
  15. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    @Karsten Hvidberg @Shadak @Panos Schoino @Renato Simioni

    I’ve been reading some of the comments on youtube in response to @steelreserv ’s excellent rebuttal video.
    There really seems to be a huge following for the custom files , perhaps more than i imagined.
    many people have said it’s made the sim for them , so you should be super proud. ( maybe you should have made it donation based )

    I also see a lot of people have maybe been overwhelmed by the huge thread and so so many different posts and files and have not been able to get there head around it.

    It can take a lot of reading to get familiar with the lingo and values if you enter the project later. I had a similar experience when trying to figure out pc2 originally when there was really just jack spades files. It was a forum all on its own.

    This thread has become that. And while the work that been put in over the year is all incredibly valuable, I feel that rFuktor has surpassed all before and maybe its time now to begin a new thread dedicated to rFuktor and beyond.

    I feel now is the right time ,as i believe there’s going to be a influx of interest from people new to Ams2 .

    So the simplest way to present the option of custom FFB may be the less difficult for them and you.
     
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  16. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    I made a few edits to the 3.5 experimental, here is the result.

    * Custom spring for tyre deform, fixes the rain issue completely.
    * Adjusted slip feel.
    * Adjusted karts slightly.

    New custom spring values "tyre_deform_stiff" & "tyre_deform_damping".
    I think adjusting these harder might make sense for belts at least.

    Is it any better/worse for you guys? Or was the prior version just as good?
     

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  17. LE GAULOIS

    LE GAULOIS New Member

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    Hello
    The previous version 3.5 exp was better for me, the center was harder with a better feeling of the tires.
    based on fanatec csw 2.5
     
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  18. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    have had a wee play with it after transfer of my tune values.
    hard to pin point what i’m feeling. had lot of stationary ( not rolling) resistance and micro vibes going on with your starting deform values.
    Did feel lighter overall.
    I turned or stiffened it to 2.0 and equally 2.0 damper and it reduced the stationary vibes and gave more strength to rolling feel.

    i’m struggling to tell if it’s better or worse over previous. but it definitely different.
    I need to play around more but also aren’t sure what to expect from each change without some reference.
     
  19. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so will stick to the last good 3.5 exp as the final 3.5
    The other stuff will be for 3.6.

    This means your edits have all been made for the final 3.5, making it simpler for us all.

    Here is that file again, just so it's easy to find.

    Attached final "rFuktor 3.5".
    Also attached "rFuktor 3.6 - Experimental".

    Experimental 3.6 tries to improve the issues of the latest 3.5 experimental, based on comments from @Kuku Maddog @LE GAULOIS .
     

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  20. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Active Member

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    First impressions feels good with only a few minor prerequisites scales changed before test.
    Didn’t change anything in the relax curve like recent experiment , but it feels nice.
     
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