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Automobilista 2 Custom Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Karsten Hvidberg, May 30, 2020.

  1. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I'm not satisfied with the either Default preset. The overall behavior is pretty good with Default+, and the surface details come through nicely but, I get no scrub or tear effects, even with FX set to 100%. I also miss the engine-vibe and brake effects.

    It may be the need to using a lot of damping to stabilize the wheel with the SC2 Sport, combined with the Martin Ascher BB but, those effects are completely missing so, a custom file remains the best & only option for me.

    It reminds me of ACC-ffb, lacking in certain details but, I'm glad that it works for most players. It's just not my cup of tea.
     
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  2. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Hey @Stakanov ,

    Are there things you think are the most obvious things missing in 4.6 that are in your mods & tunes?

    I am not sure when the 4.7 might be ready, but it would be good to have your feedback as to what you think might make sense to include from your experience and work so far?

    I think you guys' tunes should stand for themselves, since they also cater for other wheel bases, but if there's something that is cross wheel base that you can think of, please just let me know.

    Best,

    -K
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  3. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Hey guys havent kept up with the latest and greatest after the big update.
    Been on the Silver Raw - rFuktor 4.6 - Delta-X Tune_V2.1 for a while now and the kerb feeling is a bit lacking after the update? (This might also be because Ive been playing a lot of ACC lately.)
    I would also love a bit more tyre scrub for when my front tyres during understeer, because I can hear the tyres but dont feel anything through the wheel. I find these things especially immersion breaking in VR.

    What would be the best way to increase these?

    Like I said Im on the Silver Raw - rFuktor 4.6 - Delta-X Tune_V2.1 ffb file.
    CSL Elite wheelbase, InGame FF Settings at:

    Type: Custom
    Gain: 100
    Low Force Boost: 0
    FX: 50
    Damping: 0
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  4. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Hey Kevin,

    Reg. scrub:

    In the file there are "scrub_scale" and "tear_scale" values. "tear" is earlier than "scrub". I would think you prob. want to increase both.

    Reg. kerbs, I assume you mean the surface of the kerbs:

    "kerbs_surface_scale" value can be increased.


    Best,

    -K
     
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  5. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Thank you Karsten, Ive tried turning both "scrub_scale" and "tear scale" values up gradually but the feedback Im getting is low frequency and soft.
    It feels more like small roadbumps with every bump having a very distinct bell curve to it than actual scrub, which I would expect to be high frequency and sharp, if that makes sense... Im pretty sure Ive felt it through my wheel in understeer situations before but what Im getting now is very different.

    Ive tried turning up the FX slider but as expected it only makes the feedback more pronounced.
    Is there any way to fine tune the frequencies of those values perhaps?
     
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  6. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are frq scales for both scrub and tear.
    "scrub_frq_scale" and "tear_frq_scale".

    But they are actually based off @Shadak 's real life experience from various sport cars, and it's why they have the current frequencies. I thought they should be faster too, but according to him not so.

    They are not simple bell curves, btw, but have "slip" in them and are based loosely on a graph I saw from real life slip/scrub recordings.

    Best,

    -K
     
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  7. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Ok thats pretty interesting. Ive driven a Formula 2000, 911 GT3 and a Lambo Huracan around Zandvoort a couple of times and for me the scrubbing feeling felt more in line with the screeching of the tyres.
    It might also just be my memory though, Im not 18 anymore lol

    Ill try to play around with those values a bit more to see if I can get a more immersive experience out of it.
    In the end I guess its also subjective and dependant on wheelbase etc.

    Thanks for the info and all the work, the FFB really is the icing on the cake for me in this sim!
     
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  8. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, appreciate the input reg. the frequency for sure.

    Please do post your final settings that feel as close as it gets for you, so we can have @Shadak 's reflection on those as well :)

    Best,

    -K
     
  9. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    From my RL Auto-cross experience, Scrub and Tear effects do tend to occur at fairly low frequencies, relative to most Sim examples. They are a great indicator of the "Leading Edge" of tire abuse / grip-loss.

    @Karsten Hvidberg
    Thanks again for all your contributions, and for verifying how Scrub / Tear work. I've been asking these very questions in my mind as I've tweaked some settings. Now I have just enough knowledge to fine tune these effects to my preference. :)
     
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  10. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    The feedback I was getting with the default values in my custom file was way too slow imo, not sure if its a subjective thing or if its my wheel settings, but Ive never felt irl tyre scrub as a kind of slow pulsating force like I did through my wheel. It felt really counter intuative with the speed I was going and the sound of the tyres.
    Now that Ive raised both strength and frequency it feels much more natural, to me at least. :)

    Just one more question for you @Karsten Hvidberg, is it possible to raise the threshold for these values? When you say "tear"comes before "scrub"does that mean I need to tune down my "tear" values?
    I now feel the scrub effect even before I hear the tyre squeel, again breaking the immersion...
    Its funny how these small things affect immersion so much when in VR while I dont notice them nearly as much playing on my screen...
     
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  11. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy New Member

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    When hitting the curb with the front right wheel, the steering wheel pulls to the left, why not to the right?
     
  12. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Just did some more testing with different cars.
    Im not sure how realistic sound fx is for tyre scrub, but the higher values Im using feel much better in line with my audio cues now. In turn making it much more believable and immersive.

    I found it really noticable in the 911 RSR GT3 and have the frequency pretty dialed, except for the fact that the feedback through the wheel is present before the audio cue kicks in.
    Its now a bit unclear when the tyres are losing their grip and the understeer starts.
    It would be really cool if this can be solved by raising or lowering thresholds for the FFB/tyre FX... :)
     
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  13. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Nice!

    I can add in some sompler threshold control than is there now.
    Currently there's only really one:
    (scrub_deadzone 0.0)

    You can raise that to have scrub appear later.

    -K
     
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  14. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    That one is interesting :)

    I used to think just as you but then had discussions with @Shadak about it, since his opinion was the opposite.
    Turns out it's down to suspension type which way it pulls :)

    -K
     
  15. Kevin del Campo

    Kevin del Campo Active Member

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    Ok, I hope tyre scrub effects are more in sync with tyre FX than with the actual physics then. :D
    Or more likely the values are so exaggerated now that scrubbing is noticable earlier than it should be.

    Anyhow, I just left town for a few days so unfortunately I wont be able to try this out untill Im back. But I will try it out and let you know how it went!

    Cheers and tusen takk!
     
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  16. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    Depends on what you want to "show" via ffb, either suspenion moving up so the side you hit moves up in the wheel, right curb, right side (tyre elevating in relation to the opposite side). Or you can simulate relation between rack and axle. Cant remember which it is in default ffb tbh.
     
  17. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    Might depend on the tyres used, when I drove the Porsche cup car it was very noticeable when the tyres came close to the limit how I could feel the rubber "skipping" on the surface in my hands, same with an M3 race spec, then I drove rally lancer Evo and there I didnt feel the tyres as much. Not sure if Karsten changed anything in the last file, I dont think he has but we had the tearing/flexing of the tyre frequency lower and scrub much higher, imo raising the scrub even more would make it too noisy and seem more like a vibration of the wheel. Also should raise more with speed etc.

    Thats one of the things we tried to simulate with tearing/scrub, not really the screeching of tyres as thats already in the game as a sound effect. When I drove a formula, there wasnt a lot of feedback but it was a damp track so maybe it was that.
     
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  18. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Well-Known Member

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    Different wheel bases will accentuate things more than others, with my old T300 it used to have pronounced higher frequency effects, and it was great with the normal scrub.
    But currently ( software could be better) my Simagic doesn’t highlight the high frequency as well, but is better in all other aspects.
    The normal 4.6 scrub feels a bit grabbing on the wheel without the subtle vibes , hence I’m using older scrub which is allowing a bit more slip and good load up of subtle vibe for information cues.
     
  19. Alegunner68

    Alegunner68 Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Liking your latest file @Kuku Maddog , made a couple of tweaks to improve slow speed forces and now I reckon this is a keeper.
     
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  20. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

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    Hey Alegunner!

    Nice to see you're still around too :)
     
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