1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Automobilista 2 Custom Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Karsten Hvidberg, May 30, 2020.

  1. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    624
    I am also experiencing these strange phenomena of changing sensations ... it happens when I restart the game, or when I change the car and then return to the same, or, when I leave I have an accident and then I restart the game ... having said that, if the my game does not throw a tantrum, with the latest experimental version n.6 by karsten I recently find this center decent which initially I would have given for exaggeration .....

    (center_full (blend (min 1.00 (* lfb_slider 12.0)) 0.6 0.3)

    ????? o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O

    :D:D:D
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Flying Kiwi AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    855
    if you use/ have one of my previous tunes, you could copy the scrub and tear threshold values and also the frequency’s and scales and it will feel very similar.
    But try it in steps, do threshold first then effects .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    959
    oh my god it s incredibly accurate what I thought I m grinning at all times. Will post it to you today:D:D:D:D:D
     
  4. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    959
    Tested with Mercedes Benz CLK LM (rather a difficult car to drive)
    Scrup comes before tear:

    (tear_threshold 0.3)
    (scrup_threshold 0.15)

    For effects scales:
    (tear_hard 0.3)
    (tear_frq_scale 1.25)
    (tear_scale 0) I could hardly believe it myself, set tear_scale to 0. But it takes away all the tire feel and roughing. It covers the whole ffb feeling enormously.

    Now the implementation at Scrub FX. 2 new lines

    (FL_scrub(*FL_scrub(blend(abs RL_scrub)1 0.3)))

    (FR_scrub(*FR_scrub(blend(abs RR_scrub)1 0.3)))

    This is for Stakanov's custom file, mine would be just one line. But with both Stakanov and my custom, it's just amazing. A tire feeling to dream of and full car control.
    Have fun and good night
     
    • Creative Creative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    624
    @Danielkart you'll be a fool but I'm going to the asylum with you!!! o_O:Do_O:Do_O:D
    it's true, I activate the tear_scale at any level and the tires doze off, I set tear_scale 0.00 and the tires return and excellent advice on the implementation of additional scrub lines. :D:D:D

    @Karsten Hvidberg i think, if we are not wrong, that here we need to investigate, if this mistake is irremovable we could think of eliminating the tear otherwise we must find a way to produce the effect while preserving the feeling of the tires. The problem is immediate when the tear_scale_effect is activated > 0 ... o_O

    I tested a little, but for now, I can only confirm that I am happy with this code for the center :)
    (center_full (blend (min 1.00 (* lfb_slider 12.0)) 0.6 0.3)

    and add that I have re-entered the MadnessBug code, maybe it will be placebo but I no longer feel the strange random variations in the driving sensations ;)

    Good night guys!!!
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
  6. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    959
    good morning Stakanov, good morning Karsten!
    hihi, Stakanov i know an institution here, should i make a reservation?:D:D It's unbelievable but true, I felt like a donkey yesterday too, but a happy donkey.
    Karsten, I don't think it's a mistake, on the contrary, it opens up great opportunities again. :)This tear_scale was responsible for a lot of bugs. It can also be that the fluctuations in the driving experience that you described caused it. I only had a little time yesterday to test more. Anyway, it's getting better and better, and I'm already seeing new possibilities with this extreme progression and these changes. Have a nice day, it's snowing here:eek:
     
  7. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    1,451
    I am not sure what you mean by bugs reg. tear_scale?
     
  8. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    624
    @Danielkart and @ALL I'm not on my computer today and I will stay away from home so I can only search the archives on my mobile, in these spoilers there are the first version of tear implemented by Karsten ... you or someone could try if it works or if it covers also the feeling of rubber ..... perhaps some of these give important indications. ;)

    First tear...
    ###########################################################
    #
    # Tear FX
    #

    (tear_scale_front 0.3)
    (tear_scale_rear 0.5)

    (FL_tear (* 2 grip_fl FL_tear))
    (FR_tear (* 2 grip_fr FR_tear))
    (RL_tear (* 2 grip_rl RL_tear))
    (RR_tear (* 2 grip_rr RR_tear))

    (F_tear (max FL_tear FR_tear))
    (R_tear (max RL_tear RR_tear))

    (F_tear (max 0 (- F_tear 0.05)))
    (R_tear (max 0 (- R_tear 0.05)))

    (F_tearVol (power F_tear 1.7))
    (R_tearVol (power R_tear 1.7))

    (F_tearS (* tear_frq_scale (- 1.5 (* 0.2 F_tear))))
    (R_tearS (* tear_frq_scale (- 1.5 (* 0.2 R_tear))))

    (F_tearP F_tearP)
    (R_tearP R_tearP)

    (F_tearP (+ F_tearP (* dt F_tearS 0.4 750)))
    (R_tearP (+ R_tearP (* dt R_tearS 0.4 500)))

    (F_tear (+ (* 0.4 (sin (* 1 F_tearP))) (* 0.4 (sin (* 1.23 F_tearP)))))
    (R_tear (+ (* 0.4 (sin (* 1 R_tearP))) (* 0.4 (sin (* 1.23 R_tearP)))))

    (F_tear (* F_tear tear_scale_front F_tearVol))
    (R_tear (* R_tear tear_scale_rear R_tearVol))

    (tear_effect (* tear_scale 1.3 (+ F_tear R_tear)))
    (tear_effect (spring tear_effect 200000 1 1))

    A subsequent change to the tear took place in rfactor 4.1 with the insertion of the deadzone...
    ###########################################################
    #
    # Tear FX
    #

    (tear_scale_front 0.32)
    (tear_scale_rear 0.28)

    (FL_tear (* (if FL_bump_offroad 0 1) FL_tear))
    (FR_tear (* (if FL_bump_offroad 0 1) FR_tear))
    (RL_tear (* (if FL_bump_offroad 0 1) RL_tear))
    (RR_tear (* (if FL_bump_offroad 0 1) RR_tear))

    (F_tear (max FL_tear FR_tear))
    (R_tear (max RL_tear RR_tear))

    (tear_deadzone 0.07)
    (F_tear (max 0 (- F_tear tear_deadzone)))
    (R_tear (max 0 (- R_tear tear_deadzone)))
    (F_tear (/ F_tear (- 1 tear_deadzone)))
    (R_tear (/ R_tear (- 1 tear_deadzone)))

    (F_tearVol (power F_tear 1))
    (R_tearVol (power R_tear 1))

    (F_tearS (* tear_frq_scale (+ 0.5 (* 1.5 F_tear))))
    (R_tearS (* tear_frq_scale (+ 0.5 (* 1.5 R_tear))))

    (F_tearP F_tearP)
    (R_tearP R_tearP)

    (F_tearP (+ F_tearP (* dt F_tearS 0.4 750)))
    (R_tearP (+ R_tearP (* dt R_tearS 0.4 500)))

    (F_tear (+ (* 0.4 (sin (* 1 F_tearP))) (* 0.4 (sin (* 1.23 F_tearP)))))
    (R_tear (+ (* 0.4 (sin (* 1 R_tearP))) (* 0.4 (sin (* 1.23 R_tearP)))))

    (F_tear (* F_tear tear_scale_front F_tearVol))
    (R_tear (* R_tear tear_scale_rear R_tearVol))

    (tear_effect (* tear_scale 1.3 (+ F_tear R_tear)))
    (tear_effect (spring tear_effect 65000 1 1))

    And then in 4.3 it changed again in the first embryonic forms of the present one,,,,

    ###########################################################
    #
    # Tear FX
    #

    (FL_tear (max 0 (- FL_tear 0.3)))
    (FR_tear (max 0 (- FR_tear 0.3)))
    (F_tear (* 0.5 (+ FL_tear FR_tear)))
    #(tear (* 0.15 tear_scale (min 0.5 F_tear) (power (oscillator (* tear_frq_scale (min 1 F_tear) dt 50)) 5)))
    (oo oo)
    (o (oscillator (* tear_frq_scale (min 1 F_tear) dt 50)))
    (o (power o 1.8))
    (o2 (if (min 0 (* o (- o oo))) (* o 0.5) o))
    (oo o)
    (tear (* 0.15 tear_scale (min 0.5 F_tear) o2))
    (tear (spring tear (* tear_hard 700000) 1))
    (tear_effect tear)

    That's all, after these the latest version of tear took over (obviously I haven't published all the minor changes that have occurred in the individual values) ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    1,451

    Is there a problem?
     
  10. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Flying Kiwi AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    855
    I’m almost caught up ;)

    the way than Daniel has implemented the scrub and tear isnt dissimilar to the way I’ve been using for some time, except for the zero tear scale. So it mostly feels very similar but does come through the wheel smoother,

    for me, tear has always been a snag feeling which is why I’ve always pushed it out to be at edge of grip threshold as a que that the tire is almost ready to give in.

    it also gives a good initial lock up feeling .

    some tires have more tack than other, and on some tracks with the tacky tires the tear can be quite rough feeling.

    making the scale low does smooth this out for sure. But there is a trade off that the tire sensation is quite same same throughout if you know what I mean.

    so I’m not saying I don’t like it at zero, I’m just saying there’s still a case for it to be used depending on taste.
    I’m not sure there’s any actual bug with it, it’s just an effect.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    959
    sorry karsten , English is not my mother tongue. I mean Tear_scale is responsible for the wrong scrub feeling and tear feeling. How long it's been you'd have to look up what Stakanov said. I usually never look back at what used to be. I test and go by my feelings and adjust values accordingly. But I'm sure it's been like this for a long time.
    regards Karsten
     
  12. Benzaah

    Benzaah Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2021
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    20
    Ive been away for a week and this thread has blown up. I now have some testing to do. Thank you all :p
     
  13. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    959
    hey kuku
    I have a different opinion than you. Tear_scale interferes with every value above 0 . But if you have a different feeling then use it
     
  14. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    959
    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Flying Kiwi AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    855
    I don’t mind it at 0 at all, it feels fine.
    But trying to understand what you mean by a bug ?
    What values is it interfering with specifically.
    I’m sure Karsten would be able to correct it and it may improve everything if there is something unintentional happening.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  16. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    1,451
    It's weird how we all feel tear and scrub are better or worse, perhaps it's a thing that is more wheel base dependent than most other things... Great if these efforts can result in somethi g that works well for most...
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  17. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Flying Kiwi AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    855
    Yes this is always a strange anomaly, but I ( you may remember back in the day ) have always felt low scrub frequency a different way even with my old T300, compared to what you found best on your trusty simucube.
    but for me it has carried over to my DD. The preference is still the same.
     
  18. Karsten Hvidberg

    Karsten Hvidberg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    1,451
    I do think I would now prefer lower frequency tear, and low force on it.
    It was made for coming slightly before scrub, but it also makes sense to ha e something change on lateish scrub, for variety as you also pointed to earlier.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Kuku Maddog

    Kuku Maddog Flying Kiwi AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    855
    its always had a small tug on the wheel effect to me. So if it comes in early in loading it’s trying to repeatedly tug on and off as it skips over road texture.
    This interferes with the progressive loading feels, so that’s why I liked to push it out until later or closer to the grip limit.

    anyway, I’ve slowly morphed my 5.0.1 tune bit by bit through to exp 6 and it’s feeling quite good, but now I’m going to go back and mix and match a little as there’s a couple of things I liked more previously. But exactly which bits is the fun part. Plus I’ve got to see how some of the others variations feel.
    Tomorrow’s job :whistle:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Stakanov

    Stakanov Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    624
    No @Karsten Hvidberg there are no problems, the only anomaly is that with tear_scale_effect at 0 the tires feel different even when there are still neither of the two scrub tear effects (in the straight and at the beginning of the curve), no matter how much you delay the effects arise ... the question is "it's normal that the tires feel different when the tear_scale is different from zero" ??
    or
    Why does the tear change the normal tire if the effect has not yet arrived and when the tear is the last effect why does the scrub also feel different if the tear has yet to arrive to the last?

    So with the zero tear the tires feel good without effects (only the rubber work), and I continue to feel it well even when the scrub arises which adds to the sensation of normal rubber and obviously the tear does not arrive and I do not feel it and everything it is OK ... and we come to the loss of grip.

    If, on the other hand, I enable the tear and I impose it that it must arise even very far before the loss of grip .. it happens that the tire start feels different without the effects having arisen yet so I don't feel the work it was doing as before, even the scrub feels different as before and at the last the tear arrives ... but why change the first and second step I do not understand... o_O

    So we are not talking about how the effects should be, as you like it or as modify it, but only because an effect modifies everything else when the effect has not yet arisen ;)

    I hope I have interpreted @Danielkart 's thought well....
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1

Share This Page