Automobilista 2 Custom Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

It's incredible what the VNM crew has achieved in a tiny rat hole as a small company. I hear good things about the feel of the stuff they make from reliable sources including you. That shows there's passion behind the project and that's the take off point for any successful company.

The question mark with every single hardware and sim title out there is the signal that is being sent to your brain via your hands. Is this feeling real? (yes, real should exist at this point) Does the sim title & hardware match the feeling of my actual race car in the garage? Speaking of the hardware, some people think stronger means better when a BMW E92 335i actual FFB on over sized tires, dropped to the grave yard rolling on stiffest coil over setup is less than 10Nm at high speed corners and let's not forget that legendary car has one of the stiffest steering feel in the Coupe world. If you ever drive one coming from a typical sport car you'd think E92 doesn't come with hydrolic steering wheel.

But at the end; we are all here for AMS2 and as a man who has dedicated a big portion of his life to machines with 4 wheels and racing since the 90's; we are definitely not there when it comes to physics and it doesn't feel good because we have the best graphics, VR, car selections and tracks in the sim racing world, but we can't connect all that to the tarmac. I'm still waiting

 

Some might have issue with that, some sure do not, like me for example. This is very subjective and you describe as it would be objective ("we cannot connect to the tarmac"), which it definitely is not. I haven't had such issues with AMS2 in a long time myself.

There are people who seem to need (or get used) similar FFB as in ACC to feel connected, some seem to need similar to rF2/LMU to feel connected, some feel btter connected with FFB on AMS2 (or with some of the many FFB options on it), some with iRacing etc. Naturally it also depends on the equipment you have too.

I still haven't run into a sim that has a FFB, which works for everyone. I do have noticed that getting used to it and trying to focus more on driving and not think about the ffb that much, often helps, strange feeling ffb becomes second nature and your brain starts to understand better what it is telling and you feel more connected with the car and the road. I guess it doesn't happen with everyone (or some are just too focused on chasing something specific they want) or maybe it happens only with certain cars in the game.

My last custom file was Karsten's latest that I really started to enjoy (before that it was FullFFB, but I have had periods with Daniel's, Kuku's and others I cannot even remember anymore + the defaults as well). Now I started to give a new opportunity for the updated new default / default+ and I find that I start to enjoy those more and more the more I drive them, the important info is there and I get immersed quite well. I definitely don't have some absolute favorite at the moment.

As for physics, there is the physics thread for such discussions (and even with those, there are people with IRL racing experience that have different views on how good and correct the physics are... as there is with other sims).

 

The new updated Default (not Default +) works really well on all my bases (DD & belt) as I mentioned before. I'd say they nailed it and everyone should try it for long sessions w/o being married to whatever FFB file they've been rolling with and decide if it's for them or not. I'm glad you are feeling good with the tire contact and chassis management in the game.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. You say it doesn't bother you, you just have to get used to it, and it's all subjective. Exactly, you're someone who mostly hangs out in the FFB or physics threads. Exactly, you've already tested every custom because you're looking for something different. Why? If you're satisfied, as you say, and everything is subjective? What you're saying here doesn't make sense to me.
It's not subjective that AMS2 is very slippery and has a lot of "flying" feel, and the connection between car and road could be better. Not all cars, but many. For these reasons, I have the customs because I can correct or eliminate some of them. I'm not the only one saying that, many people are, and there should be improvements here, especially in the physics. But for me personally, there are other unresolved bugs in AMS2 with the in-game settings that unfortunately still don't work correctly even after 5 years. That has nothing to do with subjectiveness either. Yes, in the end, everyone can take what they want, and in the end, it's just a game. But to say it is all subjective is wrong in my opinion

 

I'm just tired of trying to explain my feeling about AMS2 to random people as a real life race car driver with a group of 10 plus close friends that are actually racing/traveling together to various race tracks in the US and spend hours in private rooms sim racing online, get together and talk about our experience. NONE of them are happy with the physics in AMS2 including me. 14 of us have done multiple 24 hour competition races in Nürb and Spa with two drivers swap on each rig in a massive warehouse here in California. GT3 (Gen1 & 2), Group C and LMDh.

Once people realize there's a difference between flight simulator and racing simulator; then we have a solution to the problem I guess

 

Yesterday I switched over to default+ and frankly I'm amazed how good it feels now.
At first I had a horrible grindy feeling so had a look at the pithouse settings and found the hf vibration at 100%! Took that down to around 30, and now it feels great. Only thing missing is the rear scrub/tear but apart from that everything is very well balanced.
I may have finally found the way out of my ffb rabbit hole

 

I'm happy for you, buddy, that you've finally arrived. If I'm honest, I currently have other simulations that cause fewer anomalies for me personally, without requiring me to change my base settings in unconventional ways, and that are more fun. I'm also very excited about the new Assetto Corsa Rally and hope that there will be another rally game that comes close to Richard Burns Rally in terms of driving experience. All the best, buddy.

 

That rally sim looks awesome, rumour has it that it's even harder than RBR.

 

I said that I don't have issues of feeling being connected to the tarmac thru FFB and it's been that way for a longer period already. I have been switching up different FFB profiles just out of curiosity if there is even something I would enjoy even more than the ones I have been using, it's not like I would be searching cure for something that was bothering me too much. I was also previously okay with the default+, with one exception, how the suspension compression on tall curbs etc. (think Adelaide or corkscrew on Laguna Seca) would try to kill my hands. Fortunately I don't think that is a problem with the updated defaults, which just feel universarly better to me than the old defaults. I would prefer to drive of defaults, as long as they are as good or better for me than custom files out there.

I also said it's a subjective, not objective this feeling of being connected to tarmac and for some (not all), it's more about getting used and learn to understand what the FFB is telling. I totally understand it's not the same for everyone.

Physics are another thing and Reiza wants those discussion to be in the physics thread, so I won't dive into that here much (even though physics naturally impact the FFB too).

 

Would be nice for you to share those in the physics thread though. Not just some vague "physics aren't right" claims, but being specific and ideally having some "proof", something to measurable, visible in telemetry, examples from real life where the car behavior in AMS2 is not correct etc. It's a lot more interesting and valuable that way and might end up being usefull. It's not like Reiza wouldn't be aiming for accuracy on physics side and wouldn't try to improve things if something is clearly proven incorrect.

 

So, the slippery feeling in AMS2 is the biggest criticism from almost all well-known e-sports drivers and serious sim racers — no matter which forum you look at. Many real race drivers also mention that the behavior of the rear end and in corners is simply too slippery. In reality, there’s much more mechanical grip. When you push beyond the limits, you might lose the car completely — but up to that point, there’s a lot of grip, and that feeling is unfortunately a real weak point. I also don’t understand why the AMS2 developers handle this so differently. That’s my impression, both from what I read and from my own experience. It really reminds me of the old iRacing days, when people used to call it Iceracing. They eventually realized that such an overly slippery driving behavior doesn’t reflect reality — and thankfully, they changed it later on.

 

All that has been discussed in the past and can be found in the previous pages. I actually tried to contact Reiza, but wasn't able to find any contact information online. It'd be nice if anyone can help me to get in touch with them.

I actively race with my BMW M4 and a good friend of mine races with 911 GT3. I've raced with 911 and a Corvette on a track so I have some experience when it comes to the GT class. The weight transfer, tire feel/contact and chassis behavior is disappointing in AMS2. We don't cruise, we race and push the machines to the limit just like you and I do in sim racing. You never get that floating boat feeling in the race cars I mentioned. The reaction is quick and there's that sense of trust and confidence, that feeling keeps building up as the lap numbers go up, but we are always at the edge of our seats when we are racing in AMS2. Same cars, same drivers.

It's so different when you have racing experience in real world. You treat the cars and other drivers with respect. Spinning, crashing and physics become way more important to you compare to someone who's playing for fun.

 

After more time with default+ I find I need to work a lot harder to get the lap times I did with the customs, the spring feeling over bumps definitely needs reducing.
Racing the ai in the limited time I've had has weirdly been more fun though, maybe because it's more balanced with Reiza's ffb.

I think if they put scrub/tear in the rear it would help mitigate what is going on, it may help the numbness when it lets go.

 

Default felt cleaner and less noisier than Default+ on my setup. The FFB feels really good after the latest update.

They're giving us the impression that they're not able to fix the issue. It could be very time consuming or maybe they have to rewrite the physics for every single car.

I had a good experience with driving the mighty Lamborghini Murciélago. The handling model of that car gave me some hope. We will see

 

Just tried default on my last run and it did feel a lot better surprisingly.

 

The rear end of the GT3's, especially on corner entry is way different after the latest update. So if that was referred in Robert Gerke's post, I don't know what to say (especially if it's based on the updates GT3's), because the rear has now so much grip that it's hard to lose it (GT4's weren't updated).

GT1 2005 Lambo is amazing though, currently my favorite (and the 2005 stuff what is coming has similar feel, not soft/mushy at all).

 

Tastes are different, but I find the grip between the tires and the asphalt very present, more so than any other sim, and I don't feel the cars are excessively slippery at all. As of now, AMS2 has one of the best FFBs available in my hands. The car behavior is very consistent and natural, a pleasure to drive.

 

Amen!

Kinda gets out of hand this relentless search for detail, I don't want to drive with constant vibrations we dont feel in real cars steering..lol.. sure, I can get the rumble of the curbs, and a bit of vibration from slides of understeer etc, but i dont want overblown pretend "detail" .. raceroom seems to solve this, it could have a little more details, but overall the "fundamentals" are loud, and the "fx" is much more quiet..

 

I have no experience with real race cars, so I don't know how the car would feel on a track. I know how my car responds and base on that and the default setting comes pretty close for me. FFB supports the feel in your steering wheel, but in my opinion, it will never let you feel what you would feel in real life, because several factors are absent, such as g-forces. How many of you have some experience in, for example, the GT3 class or something similar?

 

Having spent a lot of time in R3E lately to try it out after DanielKart said he's been enjoying, I've finally been able to get some perspective:

I finally understand what people mean when they say that AMS2 is 'slidey'. I also persist in my opinion that this adjective also applies to AC, ACC, and RF2, with the proviso that AC and ACC are heavily understeer-oriented, as opposed to RF2 and AMS2 which to my mind are more balanced/oversteer oriented.

Is R3E more realistic than AMS2? I dunno. I prefer AMS2's Default FFB profile, but the way FFB feels in R3E works for me just fine, and it has enabled me to understand what DanielKart has been trying to achieve with his custom files.

R3E also has the advantage where tyre temperature just doesn't matter. In AMS2, it absolutely does and it makes a massive difference. Trying to warm up Super V8s around Suzuka when the tyres and brakes are 2 degrees is an interesting experience

Now, the point in all this information comes down to one simple thing:

People criticise AMS2 by saying "It's floaty" "It's slidey" "It feels like a boat" without giving a comparison point. So people like me who hear this go "Well no it isn't, maybe you should warm up your tyres" because I'm just used to it.

It is much more helpful to other players and the developers to say things like the following HYPOTHETICAL scenarios:

"Compared to my IRL experience driving a GT4 car, the back end steps out and slides too much and doesn't feel realistic. This could be related to the engine braking or the diff preload."

Or

"When I drove a Formula Ford this one time, I found it understeered a lot more than the Formula Trainer does in AMS2. It also is more prone to lift-off oversteer if you're not careful during corner entry."

Please be aware that these two scenarios are ENTIRELY FABRICATED - just examples! I would love to see a stop to "It's slidey. It's floaty." and start seeing some actual informative feedback, because that is so much more helpful.

I dislike when people compare to other racing sims as opposed to real life scenarios, but sometimes it's going to be helpful to actually give that feedback - "My 992 GT3 is more oversteery in AMS2 but it's way more understeery in ACC, and I prefer one over the other one." But that doesn't necessarily answer the question of what is realistic, that's just personal preference.

Now that I've managed to ramble on for a million years:

FFB is entirely personal and subjective and can completely change how a car feels, and can have a huge effect on how fast or slow you can make that same car go around a track. I like Default in AMS2 and it works for me the most out of any game I have played, but the FFB in R3E is fine and I like it too.