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Automobilista 2 - June 2020 Review - SLIP AND GRIP?!

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by kraM1t, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    Far as I can see the guy who made the video has footage of drive by formula cars, so thats more because he has indeed seen a real formula car :D
     
  2. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    It's OK, I gave him the opportunity to reply directly on YouTube ;)
     
  3. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member Reiza Backer

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    It's not that I agree with him or disagree with him, just thought it would be good if someone posted this thread there so he might address some of the questions and/or arguments.

    Although now I am confused. Is he on here or not? I don't know! Haha
     
  4. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    But realism is a very complex thing to model. With a simplistic tyre model surely you have less of a shot at modelling reality. That's what I am saying.
     
  5. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Yeah i always wanted to make the move across to TKM's mainly because at that time they were using the same rubber I knew and loved - Maxxis. But in the end I went the Formula Yamaha (which was mean MEANT to be cheaper and fairer!!), Then progressed onto 100c. That was back in 1997/1998, plus
    Im from the south so you'd expect me to be mostly racing southern circuits but my dad who likes to do things differently made us race further up north, so Three Sisters, Shennington (which is a wonderful circuit! That hairpin at the end of the lap was amazing. Proper seperated the men from the boys in regards to who braked latest!), Then a bit down at Buckmore, and the 2 variations of Forest Edge (both MOD land so it kept getting moved around). I made a little comeback recently but it's just stratospherically expensive if you want to stay competitive, fresh tyres every meet, new brakes etc etc. I couldn't swing that every month, not with a mortgage. Maybe if I win the lottery! :)
     
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  6. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Active Member

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    With tires, not a lot of things have to be modeled to provide realistic results. And the final results are all that really matter.

    A physical tire model like SETA or the one in iRacing means one adjustment affects everything else. So if one thing is fixed, it may (and usually does) break everything else. Everything must be perfect, of the whole thing is way off. That's not practical, and no one has made it work yet. That's why Neils prefers the simpler models, and perhaps is one of the reasons he chose not to lead the effort for AMS 2.
     
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  7. 250swb

    250swb Active Member

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    The first thing to consider is that driving in real life is not the same as sim racing, but we all hope the gap gets closer. And I have actually raced in real life, I'm an old git and won a championship back in 1984, but that means nothing in relation to sim racing other than you hope the principles of vehicle dynamics apply in some sort off logical order. And whatever he was talking about is about sim racing pure and simple and NOT racing on a real track or with real cars even if he try's to prove a point by using a Caterham and not an F1 car. He's a fantasist.
     
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  8. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I'm not sure I've ever played a race sim that has got all the cars right, mostly you find a few gems that absolutely nail it and feel so natural and just right, and then you get some models that you drive and just think wtf was that. Often it's somewhere inbetween. Can't say I agree or disagree with the points in the expert video in OP, I haven't really got into the fast open wheelers yet as I'm busy enjoying many of the others.
    Anyway I thought this thread would be spicy, so thanks for a good read everyone, most enjoyable. Bloke comes into sim Y forum, says sim Y is wrong, sim X is better. Discuss.
    Always guaranteed to get us going :(
     
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  9. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Lol try discussing a bug. You will be accused of saying complexity equals realism :p :p
     
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  10. steelreserv

    steelreserv Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I'm an expert with Honda CRVs with eco-friendly tires. Sometimes when it rains I get slip oversteer and my wheel give absolutely no feedback. I have to rely on my expertness with Honda CRVs by reducing throttle application and light braking to get some front end loading. My suspension is rather soft even in sport mode, so that helps. Honda's slow bump dampers are excellent, but the FFB is sh*t. I have to rely on pure, real life driving instinct. Much like Cole Trickle in Days of Thunder.

    Edit: I forgot to mention AMS2. I like it. And indycar is better than F1 anyway.
     
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  11. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes, modern cars (with a few expensive exceptions) have terrible FFB.
     
  12. Sampo

    Sampo Member

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    And from what i've read and seen, the tire physics are the most difficult one to get right.
     
  13. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    I've driven cars on racetracks, and I autocross. I think you learn a lot more about a car's balance and characteristics in a day of autocross where you take 30 corners in 45 seconds than you do taking 6 corners over 90 seconds, but that doesn't make me an expert on how the Formula V12 drives(Or anything, honestly). Fact is, very few people in the world know how a 90s V12 F1 car should feel on the limit. Maybe a dozen living people? Maybe less? Just because this guy tossed a focus around on a track once or tossed a 333 SP around a track once doesn't mean he knows how a 2019 F1 car is supposed to feel at the limit.

    Honestly, I think this is the big disconnect. No one really knows how those feel, so we're relying on intuition for the most part based on our own experiences. This is a tire model sim, so there's a possibility the tire model is more accurate than our intuition. It's probably unlikely in the long run, but it's absolutely possible. It's just a matter of how good you can make the tire model, and that's going to be the eternal struggle for racing sims henceforth. And I think you can make a good point that it's more important that it be fun than it be the most authentic, realistic experience possible. If it was that authentic I'd have a lot more injuries. At the end of the day we're just remote control driving on a video screen. If it was THAT realistic, it'd be harder to drive these than real cars. I just want a challenge and to have a good time. The more realistic it is the better within those confines.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  14. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff Reiza Backer

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    I suggest you guys to watch a YouTube video of StockCar Brazil and then try to replicate the same race in-game...basically 90% of times you will correct/save/turn the car in the same way and StockCar is far to be the car with best FFB (needs some fine tuning since the one in AMS is way more communicative)!

    Same for the Catherams, in AMS1 I can feel every bump on the track but I have no advice when car is going to spin, in AMS2 is the opposite, I can control the car since I know what is going on with tires but I can't feel the curbs/bumps...

    At the end of day...Reiza did a great job with AMS1 and they are doing a great job with AMS2, obviously the results will be quite different since are based on different engines but overall I am happy of both games even if I am not an expert or real race driver (and I am a noob a real one).

    About Niels and AMS2, I remember something about him planning to rework extensively the engine but being a long long long process so they prefer to work with the current one...
     
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  15. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    AMS3 confirmed?
     
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  16. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Since it seems to be the benchmark for sims, I reinstalled AC to try it myself,
    But after playing AMS2, I'm sure I am not going to spend much time in AC.
    Doesn't the producer of the evidence video know how to adjust the car setup, so it is more to his liking?
     
  17. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Active Member Reiza Backer

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    In order to show what I'm missing in AMS2, I profit to share a link to a new good mod for AMS.


    Previous version was awful but this update is a joy to drive and a good example about 'plausibility' and I suggest you to download it (link in description).

    Numbers may be all wrong, suspensions are probably not realistic as well but is does everything you would expect from this kind of car: inertia oversteer, coasting understeer, on throttle understeer, tires on fire in all other situations. It also has no brakes...

    SETA tire model may have more features but I still can't fully find this kind of involvement (or the one I have in several other AMS models) in any AMS2 car.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  18. David Wright

    David Wright Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I'm afraid you don't remember correctly. I'd also suggest you read what Renato has to say about the engine.
     
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  19. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    Interesting I have the opposite issue. I can feel everything in AMS2 and not much in AMS1, some mods in AMS1 are excellent though and make it much better. I mentioned this in one of the FFB threads, I have a feeling that Reiza made the FFB cater to certain wheelbase models in AMS2, making some of the others feel really numb. On DD1 I can literally feel every rock, every piece of curb, pretty much everything I would normally feel on the road via bodylanguage of the car. Have you tried any of the custom FFB files, maybe it would help with the little details?
     
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  20. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff Reiza Backer

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    Yeah I know what Renato said but I also remember something about Niels having a different plan but not doable due to lack of time or sorta, I can be wrong of course...
    @Shadak DD is more detailed than G27 so no matter how good FFB can be, hardware will made a huge difference nevertheless :D
     

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