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Automobilista 2 // Physics engine

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by david chatelet, May 27, 2019.

  1. traind

    traind Member Reiza Backer

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    Just tried it again and, while I admit you can spin it, I disagree they have it right. It's not important as I believe Reiza can get a good feel from the Seta tire model and it sounds like they are already making progress.

    But back to the Speciale. I was using OEM, stability off and traction off. The Speciale feels wrong and a bit fake at the very limit. First, it understeers significantly. A little I can understand as any car will given the right driver input but in PC2 it plows a bit like a farm instrument. Second, you can provoke power on oversteer but if you keep at the throttle it rarely moves toward a spin unless you have the wheel really cranked and even then it tends to either correct itself with very little effort or it understeers.

    So the guy in the video above is feeling like a hero because the back end starts to move but it requires very, very little skill to control it because of the phenomenon I am describing at play. I then drove the GT3RS, a car I have been lucky enough to drive in real life, and it oversteers much more readily than the Speciale. And more readily than real life too... although the OEM tires are not as sticky as the PS Cup2s I experienced so it would oversteer more if given less aggressive rubber.

    Anyway, Reiza has AMS feeling terrific on most cars. They believe they can replicate that with the Madness engine. I do have just a small bit of concern as the handling nuance is a really delicate thing in a sim for those who look for it. However, I have faith they will get it right and any Reiza simulation product is an easy day one purchase for me.
     
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  2. David Wright

    David Wright Member Reiza Backer

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    SMS say they have improved the tyre model. It is the newest tyre model in simracing. As we can see from development of the iRacing and rF2 tyre models it will take a little time to perfect. Renato says even using stock SMS tyres the cars feel better than they do in AMS1.
     
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  3. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    You are not going to learn much about AMS2 by testing PCars2, any more than you will learn about AMS1 by testing rF1.
     
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  4. Óscar Melero

    Óscar Melero Active Member Reiza Backer

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    This comparisiongives me good vibes.
     
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  5. Supa

    Supa Member

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    Ahh tried a range of cars from street to gt3 . I use %100 top slider and %50 on next one down and zero the rest as they are obviously just rubbish canned effect like curb etc. Crazy eh all those silly sliders. Any game with this amount of settings for ffb like dirt rally for instance have rubbish physics eh. Cant even play dirt rally with my dd wheel. Horrible!!!
     
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  6. Msportdan

    Msportdan Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Post of the century. I wondered why all of a sudden people are now praising pc2 as a sim with amazing physics, trying to establish a connection.... when really it hasn't. Im sure reiza will make it now a proper authentic feeling sim with better physics pumped in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  7. David Wright

    David Wright Member Reiza Backer

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    Do you understand what a physics engine is?
     
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  8. Msportdan

    Msportdan Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Do you? Regarding physics I meant better values or whatever they input in.

    But for your Info I judge physics on how they feel not what numbers are plugged into them If it feels **** I'll say.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  9. David Wright

    David Wright Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes :)
     
  10. Msportdan

    Msportdan Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Happy for you
     
  11. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE New Member

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    I have no doubt Reiza will do yet another outstanding job as proved with AMS. When you drive the car, it feels "right", as close to natural more than any other consumer race sim, in my view.

    The problem with this "industry", i.e. consumer simulation software, is that many people involved in the development are not even engineers, yet are supposedly developing sophisticated physics engines. Furthermore, the fanbase make false assessments on "good" and "bad" physics engines based on little or no credible merit, purpetuating rumours which end up being common "knowledge".
     
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  12. Allaeius

    Allaeius Beginner Reiza Backer

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    I actually bought pCARS 2 right after the announcement to have a taste of the Madness Engine. As I have expected, it is quite disappointing but then again, even AC was somewhat disappointing to me despite all the praises it have.

    I started with pCARS but then AMS was released and it was the best thing ever. I may not be a race driver in real life but I know how a car feels like on the wheels. Nothing simulated that better than AMS did.

    Now, one thing that's very interesting to me is how AMS handle the FFB. In AMS you can simply start the game and drive, unlike other games. Sure, you need to select your wheel if it has its own preconfigurations but AMS covered almost all of the major ones. Like AC, I had to play around with the FFB settings and stuff only to discard them when I discovered FFBClip and then discard it again after I discovered the LUT Generator. Yet it doesn't feel as good as AMS.

    My question is, is the same thing being done to AMS2? Can we expect a choose and forget type of scenario for FFB settings? I hate the fact that most of my time in other games is to get the FFB working. Sometimes I thought, "Did I missed anything important?", in other games while that never occurred to me with AMS.
     
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  13. Cully

    Cully New Member Reiza Backer

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    Im in a weird place with AMS2, AMS is my favourite sim,i backed it on day one after great experience with GSC and FT.
    My problem is i dislike PCARS2 as much as i love AMS, im no expert but i cant help but be worried.
    Niels is a hero of mine, the guy is a genius, i could sit and watch him talk and or drive all day long so im putting my faith in him and reiza yet again.
     
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  14. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Just because it's using the same engine as pcars2 doesn't mean ams2 will be the same all over, it might be so different you'll never realise it's using the same engine.

    Lots of people seemed worried by this, but i have no fear whatsoever, Reiza will stick their stamp on the engine the best way that they can and that's with or without Niels...which again is a misdemeanor as Renato has said elsewhere!
     
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  15. ermo

    ermo New Member Reiza Backer

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    How so?

    - Did you change the chassis/drivetrain/aero/seta values to the point where they don't resemble the values in PC2?
    - Did the MADNESS engine receive significant updates and bug-fixes since PC2's last patch?

    The devil is in the detail. Inquiring minds would like to know. :)
     
  16. ermo

    ermo New Member Reiza Backer

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    Perhaps that's because no-one has ever offered you a good explanation of what is actually going on with the MADNESS FFB engine? It certainly seems that there's an opportunity for enlightenment here. :)

    If you aren't afraid to learn more, this post (and this addendum) might prove useful.

    Since you're on a DD wheel, you'll probably be better off with the RAW preset (which was designed for high end FFB wheels).

    In the RAW preset, the TONE and the FX sliders are connected the same way as in the INFORMATIVE preset described in the linked post as far as I know.

    EDIT: Here's a couple of posts that give you an explanation on how to adjust your FFB Volume correctly: #1 #2 #3 #4 -- note that you are strongly encouraged to map two buttons to FFB Volume (up and down respectively) for more convenient adjustment while on track, as the necessary Volume setting may very well change between cars depending on their weight, grip and downforce level.

    EDIT2: So, in your specific case, I would encourage you to try with:
    - PRESET=RAW (no autoscaling, no compression, can be considered 'pure rack')
    - GAIN=100 (Full DD FFB torque available at all times)
    - VOLUME=To taste (use the FFB buckets in the Telemetry overview as explained in the linked posts to adjust the Volume per car)
    - TONE=50-ish (55-60 if you prefer the feeling of the wheel loading up in corners on braking and turning, and lightening on acceleration/grip loss)
    - FX=0-10 -- depending entirely on taste (your DD wheel is perfectly capable of representing the natural details at a setting of 0, but that might feel too flat on non-laser scanned tracks where the surface is completely flat)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  17. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    And thanks to the complete lunacy of this last step, I refuse to bother fiddling further with PC2. Any dev/title that doesn't bother to calibrate their vehicles to a consistent FFB "weight" and then also fails to incorporate a per-car memory for the setting you eventually fiddle with enough to find something satisfactory does not get any of my limited sim racing time.
     
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  18. David Wright

    David Wright Member Reiza Backer

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    I've been driving PC2 since September 2017 and never adjusted the FFB volume.

    RF2 on the other hand - I almost always have to adjust the FFB strength.
     
  19. ermo

    ermo New Member Reiza Backer

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    Out of curiousity, which wheel and which preset do you use?
     
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  20. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    As you point out yourself, the devil is in the details - a collection of small differences both in physics values and physics engine can net a significantly different experience. In the case of AMS2 for now most differences come from car and track physics values and less from code changes, which again isn´t unlike AMS1 vs rF1.
     
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