Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - News & Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, Jun 28, 2022.
Yes, i don't like it either...
Totally agree, it's really hard to spin cars, either on lift off or out of turns. It's just the opposite of irental where the car snaps like there is no tomorrow with no sign and make driving a pain in the a*** sometimes. The behaviour mid turn is pretty good.
Yeah I do notice, hopping across sims from AMS2 to AMS1 or AC or whatever just how much leeway you get with the cars in AMS2, like comparing the savagery of the Formula V12 in AMS1 where you pretty much need surgical throttle control to prevent the rear from sending you straight into a wall to the relatively tamed version in AMS2 where you can just go through every corner doing your best Berger impression, which, don't get me wrong, is immense fun obviously, but lacks that sense of terror that you get with the original. Plus the Procar comparasion too is accurate, really it applies to a lot of cars in this game to the point where I wonder if it's a deliberate liberalness of the physics modelling or something deeper within the engine. I'm not gonna comment on realism since I've obviously never driven any of the cars in any of the sims in real life but the fact that other games are routinely so much more punishing than AMS2 does make you wonder which one is doing it "right"
This is the drop that spilled the glass. I became a user in the forum to tell you Reiza guys, how amazing you are. I'm enjoying each release, I cannot understand how you get so many things done each month.
I became a sim title collector, I own all of them, I use all of them. I can safely say AMS2 is the overall the best *software* in the market now. Still iRacing is the main service I use (because I like to race in ovals with proper rules (CAUTIONS) online, and that is exaclty their strength, even considering their *software* is not so good). But AMS gets stronger and stronger and it is definitely the best driving experience outhere now.
I hope you get ovals right!
Welcome to the forum.
A refreshing and welcome post. Glad to hear your enjoying the Sim.
I think it's definitely more exciting to drive a dangerous, unstable car that wants to commit murder one at every turn.
But I practically watched that entire race, and it just looks dead stable to me. No squirly rear-end on throttle, no real apparant lift-off oversteer visible or anything. That car is and was just incredibly stable, and that imo makes a lot of sense. Also just quicker that way instead of half the grid in the barriers halfway through the race...
It's also of course not blown, but N/A with ample power, but no rocket ship by any standard.
It's an interesting discussion; I'm not quite set on where the the truth sits either.
I think we can put the "inherent to the engine" typical behaviour to bed by now, since basically all cars have changed dramatically since launch of EA.
That leaves looking at individual cars and instances where a certain behaviour is expected but not delivered.
For one, I find I have to be quite careful with the standing starts, with the M1, it does get loose on me, but once moving it settles quickly. In this instance I think it does pretty much exactly what you can reasonably expect from a low, wide, medium/high(for the time)powered N/A car, that's nicely balanced weight-wise(engine orientation), and has tires half the width of a small country.
I really would not expect it to be all that difficult to control even under fairly harsh inputs, and I do think footage bears some of that out quite clearly.
I will have to try some high-powered cars, maybe early '80s F1 turbo since that got some work done recently, see if I can get them to misbehave on me.
You wouldn't maybe think it, but I sort of agree with the whole "a tad too lenient and compliant" sentiment.
It's just that for example RaceRoom(certain cars...) has this thing where the rear starts veeeeeeery gently sliding on you, and there's no FFB-ques whatsoever that it's happening, and barely any visual ones?! I've blown so many races that way, so I'd rather have let's say the Porsches in ams2, than the same ones in RRE, because they drive fine, but if I can't feel what a car is doing, and can barely see any subtle rotation until it's too late, I tend to not have fun for long.
I think a fine example is that BTCC Q50 in rF2, that will step out on you, but it's controllable to me. Feels right imo.
Then again, saw plenty of complaints come by on that one, so who's to say?
There is of course the Fusca, and a higher powered one in the Copa Classics I believe... It will give you lift-off murder when too enthusiastic on turn in. The rear-engined rustbucket that it is!
Yeah, I think a lot of it may boil down to the "harder=more realistic" approach many simracers seem to have (probably thanks to the old breed of sims like GPL which even Papyrus admitted wasn't very realistic) that's affected a lot of people's viewpoints on what the real things should actually handle like. I remember Empty Box did a great talk on that sort of mindset.
Personally, I'd expect the M1 to have a bit more bite, the thing has understeer that makes it feel more like an RMS than a BMW, but it's also to be expected from what I've experienced in other sims with cars such as say, DRM that shared the time period. Realism is really practically subjective at this point for the obvious fact that 99% of simracers will never get to actually drive the cars they race, but it's pretty much a case of whatever feels "right"
Speaking of rF2 and a strength it has in FWD simulation: is torque steer planned to be implemented in the FFB? Sure, it feels "weird" to get used to, but it's an actual trait of high power FWDs such as the Mini JCWs, the old Marcases (Marci? ), etc, and one that surprisingly, once adjusted to, does a great job of communicating what those front wheels are actually doing compared to how it's always been since AMS1 and probably before, where the FFB felt just like a rear or AWD car and made it tougher to gauge when you're pushing on it a bit too hard
ULTIMA GT, CAMARO SS, STOCK 2019 you tell me these cars are lame and easy to drive, with limited power oversteer, seriously
Since you brought up Raceroom, I see what you're saying, in Raceroom the transition between grip and no grip is very sudden and with little to no warning, which is maybe a bit too much, but the behavior of the car itself when loosing grip in Raceroom does seem believable to me and it forces me to drive it in a stable way, like in your video, while the M1 in AMS2 allows you to get it almost 90 degrees sideways out of a corner with little to no sweat and still save it easily so in replays the AMS2 car being pushed really hard would probably end up looking less stable than the Raeroom one.
This post was brought to you by my extensive professional experience of driving virtual race cars in my pajamas
We never did
The Brasil Stock cars are near perfection and some of my favourite cars in all of sim racing. Even if I'm not fully convinced by all the content, just the Stock Cars alone would guarantee a place in my hard drive for AMS2.
Yea, even I who very much dislike tintops (especially GT3 and GT4) for their bland-boring-fat-ass-sluggish handling actually find the Stock Car really fun to drive.
In V184.108.40.206, there are 4 cars in the F-Vintage Gen3 class (with its new team names) that have livery names with 2 spaces between the # and the car number:
Virystone # 20
Virystone F1 Team # 21
Soul Racing # 22
Soul Racing # 23
Those extra spaces are messing with custom AI files, as all other liveries in that class have 1 space between # and car number.
Attached is a NAMeS file that fixes this little issue until it can be rectifed.
So we agree on Ultimate and Camaro then right
Haven't driven the Camaro enough to say since I was never much of a road car person but the Ultima is great, yeah
Fun yes I don’t think I said they were not but slow corner exit and anything near remotely close to throttle smashing and that’s spinning fiesta
This has been corrected for the next build. Thanks for the report!
Been enjoying the sim since 1.3.7(ish), and latest update seems to be working on the drivability side, so happy to have lots of new cars to play with. Awesome stuff.
however, something has gone seriously wrong with AI at Spielberg - they are about 6 seconds a lap slower in 220.127.116.11 compared to previous. Tested with the f v10 (gen 2). At 100% difficulty in the new one, they do about 1 min 17. Changing back to the old build, they do a 1 min 11 (ish).
is Spielberg due for a calibration sweep sometime soon?
Yep, it's almost as if you have an in-game assist on, especially if you've been away from rF2 for a while. It's a title you tend to revisit for certain stuff that it just does so well, and this imo is one of them.
I was just thinking the other day how ams2 could maybe use a modern tcr-ish class, but really the JCW is fine in that regard.
Indeed does not exhibit the torque-steer we find in rf2 with the Corolla for instance.
But the JCW has come leaps and bounds as well, with the new tracks there are these "in-between" corners where it's not immediately obvious what gear to be in, until you get to know the track a little better. Only to then find out it's more beneficial to be in 3rd instead of 2nd, because high revs on corner-exit means torque as well as lateral load on the tire which will wash you right out... I enjoy this car tremendously.
It'd be fantastic to have another modern-ish fwd tourer in ams2(with realistic torque-steer), but I'm content to have it in rF2.
Looking at what Reiza have for a workload, I understand if a certain class' torque-steer is not in the cards atm.
They overhaul practically the entire roster for physics in 2 monthly updates for Pete's sake.
On the other side of the aisle we're being teased with an entirely new game, then get 2 cars after lord knows how long in the making, and have to wait until grey and old for the full BTCC title...
On a completely different note; what I absolutely dig with ams2 is the endless tunability of custom ffb, and the fact that so much of the perceived handling is in just the ffb alone. Loving the default+ now mostly, but sometimes you get a whole different car out of switching to custom.
Got long winded, sry...
Yes, and indeed I believe this is something that's seen across the entire spectrum of the title in a way.
And I would be content to "lose it" if I really overcooked it badly, expect it even.
But it almost never happens, which is partly why I'm going on 1700 hrs. in ams2...
But seriously it could stand to be somewhat less forgiving that way, for real.
I'm doing the procar in RaceRoom first thing at the Lausitzring when I have time.
Haven't touched it in a while, and they've had a busy schedule with updates as well, be interesting to see if I can actually bottle it easier, suspect I can.
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