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Automobilista 2 V1.4.3.3 & Racin´ USA Pt3 Officially Released!

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - News & Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, Oct 30, 2022.

  1. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    You're comparing tyre models, not FFB.
     
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  2. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I agree. At least on DD I can say that after v1.3 and v1.4 the FFB feels as direct and sharp as any other sim. I think most of the improvement was also related to how tires responded based on the changelogs that were issued concurrently with the FFB changes happening and some also to the improved default and default+.
    I think right now the biggest difference for me are:

    • with RF2 a sense of damping around center line which is more pronounced in RF2 which I would love to have at some point in AMS2 as well. The downside for me in RF2's FFB is that beyond that initial few degrees the steering feels quite a bit greasy and mostly focused on the front of the car. You don't feel a lot from the rear.
    • with AC/ACC there is a ton of center line gyroscopic (and toe?) effect, like a baseline value of FFB that is perceivable even in a straight line which is pretty high. It seems to please a lot the people even though for me it is way overblown and with little physical explanation attached. Again that huge FFB "static noise" prevents it from communicating much about tires flex (vertically, laterally and around the camber axis) and the general behavior of the car (especially the rear).
     
  3. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

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    Ams2 operates at 600Hz. That's not the problem, the latency is due to Base. A belt wheel will always have latency, with a dd base you won't notice it
     
  4. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    Just re-quoting myself here from an answer I gave to someone who said pretty much the same thing:

    "I know that mate but thats not the point. The FFB in AMS2 feels more sluggish on my wheel compared to RF2, AC & ACC. So yes it AMS2 would feel better on a DD but would still be sluggish on compared to those sims on the same DD."
     
  5. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    It most definately does feel a heck of alot better, massively so. But with some cars I would not agree that it feels as sharp as other sims like RF2 & AC. Its hard to put a finger on but its that feeling of having to still counter steer after all wheels have come into alignment, like you're still counter steering a split second after the event when you should'nt be
     
  6. XTRMNTR2K

    XTRMNTR2K Addicted to making SIM Dashboard designs Reiza Backer

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    Oh I think that was a misunderstanding then - I was racing against both types of car at the same time, not just the Lotus. Sorry I didn't make it more clear! :oops:

    The point I was trying to make is that in the past, other classes (whose AI was arguably more refined at the time) were giving me pretty good results at 85% - consistently. So my point still stands that this class is a definite outlier in terms of performance. Based on my observations throughout the development of AMS2 until now this seems to be the case for cars that are very high-powered and/or rely more on mechanical grip rather than downforce. It's in these cars the human player is typically at a disadvantage because the AI does not suffer from any drawbacks (such as wheelspin under power) as much as it should.

    To be honest I don't care a lot about potential issues for alien level drivers at all - because by that point a lot of people are simply "gaming the system" by abusing edge cases in the physics and values of any given sim and doing things that would get them killed very quickly in real life. :p
    Too many sims pander to aliens, giving ridiculous options like 130 percent AI strength and such, which I always find nonsensical. Ideally, 100 percent should be around real life speed (that is, of professional race drivers), and for those who are *really* fast in a sim they might want to crank it up to 105 or 110 percent - any more than that and we're in the realm of the AI obviously playing by very different rules to achieve those results.

    This is also not necessarily a thing of "train more and git gud" for me, as it's not so much a lack of training that's holding me back. Part of the reason I am spending so little time on sim racing these days is related to my health and I have neither the reflexes, focus or physical ability to deliver peak performance for any extended period of time on the virtual race track. It's not meant as an excuse, and I'm certainly not looking for sympathy - all I want is a *racing* experience I can enjoy offline. And while the driving is now, for the most part, absolutely amazing in AMS2 and has surpassed most if not all other sims I have ever tried, the racing experience still leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to the AI - and quite a lot of it boils down to the vastly simplified tire model the AI uses. (I am well aware it's just not feasible at this point to use the Seta model for them, by the way.)

    Sorry if this is sounding more bitter than it was meant to be - it's just that my frustration at the AI in racing sims in general is ever-growing these days as - physics and everything else aside - most modern sims are simply terrible when it comes to that particular aspect.

    While I did adjust the setup - however limited the options are in the Lotus 23! - I just realized that I made a grave mistake because I assumed the gearing would not be adjustable... This stems from my earlier practice runs at Spa '70, where I was looking to lower the final gear ratio to get more top speed. Silly me! Thank you so much for the reminder!

    By the way, stiffening the front and rear ARBs from 1 to 2 also helped, I think. As for the brakes, I usually adjust the brake bias for most cars 1-2 clicks rearward, which is what I did here as well. The pressure wasn't as bad (on my old G25 pedals, where I use the clutch pedal for left-foot braking), so I merely went down by two points, I think? Either way, there is still something off about the AI - just have a look at their onboard views if you have any doubt. Their movement is just too 'clean' and sterile - that might appear okay for a high-downforce car such as a GT3, but definitely seems odd in these slippy and slidey classics. :D

    My pleasure! I had a hunch you'd enjoy this combo. :D I just love how these classic UK tracks have retained their oldschool character - they're a natural fit for the likes of the Mini and Lotus. <3

    Oh, I know what you're saying! Sometimes all it takes is a short shower and the roads turn to rivers if the rain was intense enough. As a matter of fact, I've seen this many times looking right out the kitchen window. :)

    That wasn't what I was describing, though; light rain should be just that - a light drizzle that barely impairs visibility, decreases the air and track temps and maybe introduces some extra bit of slip on a really dry and dusty track. Both visually and in terms of grip it should still be closer to a dry track than a wet one, unless it has been going on for a while.

    And no, that wasn't sync to race, from what I remember I manually set the weather acceleration to 20x. I know that's the way the madness engine handles it, but it still doesn't make any sense to me - whoever thought it was a good idea to link that acceleration factor to precipitation rate rather than just duration must've been half-asleep or something. Otherwise I have no idea how such a glaring issue could make it into the sim. And, as with a lot of things that was done by SMS, it is now up to Reiza to fix the mess... (Just to be clear: I am not ungrateful - in fact, I was and still am super happy with Reiza's choice of engine and still think it was the best one given the options.)

    That is a very good question! As far as I understand, time acceleration does not affect live track, but weather acceleration must have at least some effect due to the rain washing away the built-up rubber. Not sure if it is limited to that or if it also affects the buildup of rubber on a track, though.
     
  7. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    Certainly did, front left was over 100 degrees before the end of lap 4! Check at 2:26:45 in the stream video
     
  8. DavidGossett

    DavidGossett Well-Known Member

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    There's a few cars like this that have really imbalanced brake bias. The Lotus being one of the worst offenders given it's rather weak front end. The car isn't nearly as understeer prone as it used to be, but it still feels as if the front lifts too far in some moments. And this is a car that was outclassing GT40's at the recent Velocity International (probably more a case of driver skill than just the car), but I feel the current version of the Lotus 23 just has no grip. (Most of which may have to do with the type of tire it's running.)


    26R vs. 23B
     
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  9. XTRMNTR2K

    XTRMNTR2K Addicted to making SIM Dashboard designs Reiza Backer

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    Ah, poetry in motion! Seeing these precious machines driven at race speed - the way they were meant to be - is far more thrilling than any GT3 race could ever be. And I say this with a lot of respect (and as someone who used to love watching GT3 races), but there's just nothing else quite like these classics. :D
     
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  10. Theodore Schultz

    Theodore Schultz Active Member

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    Couple suggestions. Either try Daniel's V45 that is attached below or turn your in game dampening to at least 50. Both of those will drastically reduce the counter/oversteer that you are feeling.

    Such is the one of the biggest advantages of AMS2 over all other sims. If you are not happy with the FFB, you can adjust it almost infinitely to your liking and make it feel like ACC or RF2 or R3E or something unique...
     

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  11. WhippyWhip

    WhippyWhip Active Member

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    is there a way to see the "track wetness" while driving? only way i have found is to press pause
     
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  12. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    Hmm interesting, might me good to have a track moisture % widget in the HUD. AFAIK you can only see it in garage and by pressing pause as you said
     
  13. Philippe Moinet

    Philippe Moinet The driver hyper tourist Reiza Backer

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  14. Philippe Moinet

    Philippe Moinet The driver hyper tourist Reiza Backer

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    Heu, bizarre mon post o_O
     
  15. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    Yep, everything he said!
     
  16. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    Turning damping on/up makes the problem even worse, the steering is then even slower to return to the direction of the front wheels, its delayed.
    Its still there in Daniels V45
    There are plenty of options, none of which cure the problem.

    To explain a little better (hopefully this will make a bit more sense as to what im banging on about) If you take a RWD driftable car and take a nice sharp right hander (Take BMW DTM round Druids at Brands Hatch for ex) Drift it round so the back end swings out to the left of the corner, as it then straighten up going down the hill you are quite likely for it to try to swing the other way and dart off to the left and onto the grass, because as the cars wheels straighten up, the steering wheel/FFB are slower (thats the delay im talking about) and the wheel returns to centre to slow unless you phyically force it round quicker with your hands so then the front wheels grab whilst you've still got them slightly countersteered and pull you off to the left, its just too slow to align by itself. This is inherrent to the FFB of the game, so from one degree or another it happens with every car. And before anyone chimes in with (Your not on a DD), that does'nt matter, RF2 and AC return to centre much quicker and more naturally. This is what I'd love to see AMS2 do. Don't get me wrong, I know Reiza are always working on and improving stuff and this may one day happen
     
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  17. Racinglegend1234

    Racinglegend1234 Snow advocate

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    Getting back on the cars, I would think it would be fun to get a formula student car in AMS2. I don’t know if there are any in Brazil, but Reiza could make their own version
     
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  18. jota.191

    jota.191 Member

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    Unbelievable.
     
  19. Tarmac Terrorist

    Tarmac Terrorist Well-Known Member

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    No you were clear enough, like I said i did one with both cars on track and another with just Lotus to check their acceleration specifically

    This is very much the same as real life, F1 teams have been exploiting loop holes for as long as I can remember, so E-sports drivers will do this until there is a bullet proof sim.
    In terms of 100% being as in real life, that changes from one day to another, one day one driver sets the fastest lap time in a given car track combo, the next wek its broken by someone going faster. Also I think its should just be purely down to the physics of the car when It comes to how fast it can theoretically go. I think its very possible for a real driver to set a fastest lap in real life and then break in a sim, not because of physic's exploits, but because he may make risky moves in the sim that he would never make IRL because the danger payoff is just too high/risky, but in the sim there is no risk, so the driver can try these moves and even pull them off without the risk and achieve a faster lap than IRL

    Yep, I'd definately agree with that

    Ah brilliant, glad that solved that one for ya!

    Yes, once I got the car feeling good its a great combo, really love it thanks! You've inspired me to use this short layout for more lower powered cars aswell, and its my nearest local track!!!

    Hmm, yeah but i suppose light rain is light rain, unfortuately there is no drizzle option before that (even though we do have a great variety of weather options already). Maybe that could be a future feature. Rfactor 2 has a drizzle setting.
     
  20. jmac_the_man

    jmac_the_man Member

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    How different is Formula Student from Formula Ford? FF appears in the game (unlicensed) as Formula Trainer.
     

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