1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Automobilista Time Trial Challenge - Season Completed!

Discussion in 'Automobilista - News & Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. Schlitty

    Schlitty Active Member Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    60
    I understand where your offense is coming from. I'm not suffering delusions of grandeur here, I know I am not fast or "first". Much like the bottomed out V10 floor bug that was discovered earlier in the challenge I knew this was clearly an exploit. So I shared it. 1. So it can be solved by Reiza in the future. And 2. So it is known by all in the mean time.

    I understand my wording about "hoping to sneak into first place" was poorly chosen from a "honorable" or "gentlemanly" standpoint. I only said it solely because I figured upon sharing people would use it much like most noticed the V10 setup and exploited it. I fully expected (and still do) to not finish the week in first. It was tongue-in-cheek not a boast or achievement.

    I do apologize for any misunderstanding in my tone for sure though. My only point was to make it public so Reiza could fix it. As I mentioned I had already seen at least one other sector 1 time indicating using it prior to even uploading the video. It was going to be discovered/exploited regardless. If I have to hang for be the messenger to get it publicly known I'll gladly fall on that sword.

    **Edit: And obviously it goes without saying I'm 100% fine with my time not counting in the standings or affecting anybody's score if people indeed do not partake in the exploits this week. I was shortsighted in not seeing the difference between a blatant track cut versus a game bug and shouldn't have assumed anything about how quickly the fire would spread.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    15,630
    Looking into it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. KARTEK

    KARTEK New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    11
    Hi guys ! It is not my best time but a demo for proof.

     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. SkyE

    SkyE New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    8
    The fact here is that you didn't exploit it just one time, i followed your progression and sometimes you were in 11.3 after in 11.2 ect ect. You could have make a video from a practice session were your time is not registered.

    I would just apologize too , i was a bit agressive i think ^^'
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Schlitty

    Schlitty Active Member Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    60
    Yes, I did continue to use it. I assumed it would be used by many and am apparently quite wrong. I shouldn't have assumed that, but I did. That's on me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. SkyE

    SkyE New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    8
    We all think that now, and if some people use that trick in the last minutes of the week so they grab instantly 0.5sec and win 10 places ? I think Reiza should be explicit about it

    Let us use the trick or promise us a big penalty if we use that trick. Now we can't have the question in our heads, things need to be clear so we won't have bad surprise at the end of the week^^
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Matty28

    Matty28 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    19
    People getting angry about people pushing the limits in a competition? What do you expect lol? You can call it "dirty tactics" or whatever but if it's within the rules that's just an opinion.

    This is not bug exploiting or a cheat, this is a tactic. An exploit/cheat is hidden and unintended and depending on the bug not everyone will be able to even use it, whereas this is quite clearly there for anyone to use therefore it is still a level playing field, and that's all that matters. This is like Monza race control saying "we won't do anything if you cut the chicane" - what do you think everyone is going to do? This is why Nico Rosberg did not complain about Hamilton at the last race of 2016 (hilariously, he seemed to be the only one not complaining). It's within the rules, so you just have to deal with it.

    That said, I don't think this should be within the rules, because obviously it's a bit silly and not something that is allowed anywhere else motorsport.

    One thing to note: Removing all times and implementing the system to stop it or leaving it as it is are the only solutions I can see, because 1) an exact time barrier e.g. 11.6 under which you can guarantee all times are through the use of this method does not exist and 2) many slow people may gain many positions by being faster in the first sector than their usual position but still nowhere near as fast as the top guys so would be missed by simply looking for sub-11.6 times, and who's to say they didn't just set a great first sector? So either remove all times with a system to stop it (voiding the next lap if you go off around the last corner) or leave it for everyone to use. If it's impossible to achieve a solution quickly, one should consider "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" because that is the only way to ensure the level playing field.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
  8. SkyE

    SkyE New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    8
    Its not pushing the limit matty its cheating. If you need that to win , you dont deserve to win.

    I have a question : Sincerely, are you proud to be 6th in that way?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 4
  9. Matty28

    Matty28 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    19
    You seem to have forgotten the part where you explain yourself, and have instead just regurgitated the same thing again.

    Pretty clear, is it not? That in addition to what I already said. Either use it or don't, but stop complaining to the people who are using it i.e. the people who aren't willfully choosing to lose. And yes, I am proud of not willfully choosing to lose.

    Why didn't you post anything about corner cutting on the laps themselves? You do realise that all of the top times are exceeding the track limits wherever and whenever they can? Turks posted a video a couple of days ago showing him going off the track 11 times, didn't see you kicking up a fuss about it. Sincerely, are you proud of the contradiction that is advocating exceeding track limits on the lap but not exceeding track limits before the lap?
     
  10. TaT

    TaT Member Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    15
    To what limit are you willing to go to achieve this?

    If you could cut the track halfway and miss out a section would you consider it fair?
    If you could cross the line, reverse across it and cross it again for a lap of 2 seconds?
    Would you be prepared to edit vehicle data files to get better performance than other competitors?

    I think as soon as you step away from competing in the "Spirit" of fair competition then its just a very slippery slope of what you're willing to try and do to get an advantage.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Schlitty

    Schlitty Active Member Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    60
    Where I'm at is;

    1. I genuinely made the mistake of assuming. Assuming people would do this as quickly as they would borrow/make a setup that takes advantage of things. They seemed the same to me. I don't think either are "right" but I did assume they were 1:1 comparable in not just my eyes. I missed that disconnect, as this has still yet to be quickly adapted to and used. I genuinely thought I was being fair by pointing it out instead of it being secretly abused by a few or cropping up the last day and people wondering what happened. But people did not immediately do it, which is honestly cool of people not to! BUT since I fully expected people to use it, I also didn't expect to be personally in the actual conversation long beyond delivery (I should, and personally expected to be, .4~.8 off the pace by the end of yesterday after setting my time in the morning. A time I set mistakenly assuming others had already adopted it's use as well) ...

    2. On that note; I don't like the attention. I know there was a misunderstanding there too. But whether you believe it or not I don't like going to bed ruining people's fun. Its just a game afterall and should be only fun. I did not expect the standings to stand as they have. So to be perfectly clear again;

    (Dear Reiza) I do not want my time to count OR affect points people would have had in the standings. No matter the way any decisions about it go. My preference being it's complete deletion if possible.

    3. Now even though I have this luxury of "not caring" about the competition I do realize it has affected many that do care very much and are contending. And I think there is definitely a discussion to have here both ways and that Reiza should join it sooner than later. Another assumption on my part was that Reiza would address it in some way and I just wanted everybody to be aware of it "in the mean time" so it was fair game instead of a surprise on Sunday (No names, but I still do "know" it was discovered by at least one other before me when I checked the timings Monday and may have been discovered/abused by more by week's end regardless of the upload).

    End of the day; I made a lot assumptions (and probably still making some) that I'm pleasantly surprised have been wrong in varying ways so far. Lesson learned on my part. Hope it all gets figured out and clarified today and that seeing the name Schlitty doesn't permanently leave bad tastes in people's mouths in the future. But I still do think its better these things are publicly known and am fine being the messenger that gets flogged if I have to be.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. SkyE

    SkyE New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    8
    Why didn't you post anything about corner cutting on the laps themselves? You do realise that all of the top times are exceeding the track limits wherever and whenever they can? Turks posted a video a couple of days ago showing him going off the track 11 times, didn't see you kicking up a fuss about it. Sincerely, are you proud of the contradiction that is advocating exceeding track limits on the lap but not exceeding track limits before the lap?[/QUOTE]



    1: "Why didn't you post anything about corner cutting on the laps themselves?" There is a difference between exploting the track limits during a lap and choose todon't cross the line, go in the wrong way, join another part of the track, cut another time the track to be sure to cross the line a 90km/h and say "i'm proud".

    2:"Pretty clear, is it not? That in addition to what I already said. Either use it or don't, but stop complaining to the people who are using it i.e. the people who aren't willfully choosing to lose."

    it's clear but I'm pretty sure when Renato wrote that he didn't tought for a second that people would do things like you did I think when he wrote that it was to clarify that we can push like animals on track like Turks did.

    To Schlitty, from my side, everything is forgiven. The problem here is that like you say we need asap a clarification about that behaviour, is that legal or not because honest people who contend can be affraid about people who tries to steal some places with that trick. Now we have that question: Will other drivers cheat? With 2 other questions: When? How many drivers will do that?

    I heard people say that if we don't have a clarification at the end of the week they will use that trick in the last minutes of the TT of this week. They are honest but when you don't know if you're going to be rip off or not.

    For me Schlitty your name won't have a bad taste but another makes me fill sick.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Matty28

    Matty28 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    19
    Well I think the only thing that truly matters is whether it's within the rules. You can't just impose arbitrary limits on what people are allowed to do within the rules because you say so, because that isn't clear and isn't a level playing field. I already agreed with you that I don't think this method should be within the rules, and certainly not any of the other things you said. But the fact remains, as far as I can see, this currently is. If someone changed game files they are breaking the rules, because they are circumventing the rules/limits the organisers (Reiza) have imposed. You could say it is a slippery slope the other way, how much stuff within the rules can you justify banning because you don't like it? I could say "stop using setups because they're giving you an unfair advantage and it's not in the spirit of racing to allow you to have these magic setups that limit me to 102%" but I'm not because setups are within the rules.

    Haha no there isn't. Both are exceeding track limits whether you like it or not, both are maximising use of the game's resources. I guess you're guilty of cutting the track at Imola too and can't accept you're a cheat by your own logic?

    Yeah you're right Renato probably wasn't thinking of this, but nonetheless it is covered by his rule of "whatever the game lets you do is allowed", which I think is the best rule to have because it gives 100% clarity and a level playing field for everyone.

    Hahaha I hope you don't vomit all over your wheel as you bounce over those kerbs cutting all the corners mate. But seriously, stop getting so personal and try to have a rational discussion.
     
  14. TaT

    TaT Member Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    15
    We both agree that it's wrong yet you continue to defend doing it.

    As for imposing arbitrary limits, in any event with an admin this would see the time disallowed and possible disqualification.

    It's the winning at all costs mentality I don't like.

    The difference between your post and Schlitty's speaks volumes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. jose46lopez

    jose46lopez Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    39
    I'm back to first, legal lap ;) You will have to look for more tricks...
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. SkyE

    SkyE New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    8
    Nice one Jose, you're the real wizard here haha

    Ok, I got the confirmation from reiza which said "Hello Evan. Unfortunately we have no way to rectify this while the round is in progress, so for now anything that game allows is valid."

    So ok we can use this trick, it's legal...because of the cupidity of a few people, other will have to put their fundamentals away for this week...

    I say it, if too many people use that, i may be also a wizard in the last minutes but i'll certainly won't be the next one... It's very sad to have to do that... Because it's clearly unfair to lose positions like that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Kostis Vigos

    Kostis Vigos Active Member Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    92
    Thank you so much!
     
  18. Race Fanatic

    Race Fanatic Active Member Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    42
    I can honestly say, after I saw how it was done, I did the same to get a good sector 1, reiza stated that what the game allows, is allowed. I also expect most of the top times ending up with those having done the same.

    I'd rather not have this trick possible, altho when most know about it I'm not going to try to be "fair" and end up low because of it. Reiza has now seen this trick and if they decide to deem it illegal then that's obviously fine but as long as they don't I'm going to use it. Not because I think it's how I want to drive but because it's as far as I can tell legal and gives you the best time.

    I'm not one who try to find these tricks and gain a simple advantage but if sth like this is found, is legal, and some use it then I would just find myself stupid for not doing the same tbh.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. jose46lopez

    jose46lopez Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    39
  20. krusti

    krusti RaceSimulatorItaly Founder Reiza Backer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    31
    This round is getting very annoying.
    Who keeps justify this behavior should learn something about fair play, this is nothing about going wide in a corner exit or other stuff, this is cheating. I've spent a lot of time to improve myself and finally i did a 48.1 (my virtual best lap was 47.8, so i can do better), just to see then a 47.5.
    This is going in the wrong direction.

    EDIT: oh nice, it's officially started..
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

Share This Page