Camaro SS still broken (4 issues remain)

I’ve owned/tested RWD cars with more torque and power with (much) less weight and (much) smaller tires...
Yes you have wheel spin in straight line up to ‘important’ speeds but in no cases they will become unstable IN STRAIGHT LINE like the Camaro (or the Ultima).

Some self recovering fishtailing even on the worst road asphalt and that’s it.

I won’t be writing here if any of the cars I’ve driven would have reacted like the road cars in AMS2...

 

It's been a while since the last time I tried the Camaro SS - shortly before or after 1.0, I think - so I refrained from giving my opinion until the game had gotten a few more updates and hotfixes.

Today I finally got the opportunity to try the latest content, if only for a bit. Aside from the new Lotus, Brabham and Silverstone I also made sure to give the Camaro a spin, because my earlier impressions of the car matched a lot of the criticism found in this thread (and others).

Sadly, despite the latest tire changes the car remains incredibly unstable under acceleration and braking. The first time I rolled out the garage (at Brands Hatch, but that probably doesn't matter) the rear stepped out despite applying very little throttle. I found that quite shocking, but at least it prepared me for what would happen once I got on track.

Unsatisfied after doing a couple of laps I went back to the pits and changed a few things about the setup, like increasing rear ARB and front/rear damping. Additionally I changed the clutch LSD quite a lot (severely reducing power and coast ramp angles), but that doesn't seem to do that much. (EDIT: I know the Geared LSD has been mentioned here before but I haven't had the time to try that one yet.)

When the car squirms around under acceleration or deceleration it feels like it's running on jelly instead of rubber tires, so I decided to also increase the pressures as far as I could (2.3 bars of pressure for all four, iirc). Interestingly enough this seemed to improve the handling at least by the tiniest bit.

After doing a couple more laps this is my - personal and probably highly subjective - conclusion:
The car has A LOT of power. In fact, I would argue that, a lot of the time, you are going way faster than it actually feels. When approaching Hawthorn Hill you're easily pushing 200 kilometers an hour at the braking point - but it somehow only feels like doing 120, maybe 140 at most! That being said, the brakes still feel a tad underpowered, at least when they are at optimum temperature.

The squirming behavior when applying throttle or braking feels completely unnatural, and doesn't seem to stop until at least 100 mph when flooring it on a straight. Like I said before, the car feels like it is running on jelly.

Hidden beneath all of this strangeness, however, is a car that is providing a rather enjoyable experience. It is a heavy car at 1.7+ tons of weight (and I suspect the issues may actually be related to its mass, at least in part), but is brutally fast on a straight and still has decent maneuverability through corners (although it tends to keep A LOT of momentum when rotating quickly, which easily leads to oversteer). I'm not an expert, so the car may be able to push slightly more lateral Gs than it does, but at least it seems to be in the general ballpark in that area.

Anyway, those are my 2 cents. Haven't been lucky enough to drive one of these in RL (yet? ), so I can't give first-hands account of the real thing, but something definitely feels 'off' here. Beneath the issues, however, is a very fun and exciting car waiting to be discovered!

P.S.: After seeing the new front I hope we'll get the older model back at some point. Looks like it got hit with the ugly stick more than once.

 

This

People having driven a real Camaro in a model/spec that may not exactly match this one will always be disappointed no matter what, because it will always seem inferior to the real thing on a real track they may have experienced and keep fond memory of. I suppose that there will always something to nitpick about the SS. That's not saying that it cannot be improved, but I do not think it will change dramatically. It can be driven quite fast actually but not very tolerant to be overdriven. It's also more enjoyable if you bring it to a track that is better suited for it, with some straights and not a purely curvy track. And I think this car would be better deserved with a point to point road, rather than race tracks.
Currently, very few tracks in AMS2 are enjoyable with it.

 

I dont remember seeing a date alongside it, but isnt there supposed to be a supercar DLC at some point in the future? Certainly from my point of view based on the 'street cars' currently in the game and even the Caterham 620 to an extent, I think that the non-race car setup / tyre physics are going to need a good looking at before they are released.

 

This might be an unpopular opinion but here goes. Perhaps it would be better to stop/slow down the release of the DLC cars until the handling of the current cars in the game is fixed/improved. I would hate for this game to get the reputation of having lots of content but the handling/physics of the content is sub par/inaccurate (ala PCars2).

I would even go as far as saying, don't release any new content until they've fixed/ perfected what content they have already released. I know Reiza is a small team compared to some of the other powerhouses in the Sim racing industry. I fear, if they do continue to release more content they may run the danger of spreading themselves too thin, thus not having enough time to fix all the issues with existing content before creating more.

Track releases are fine but car releases can be tricky, IMHO.

 

P.S.
The old stock has the same issues. At full throttle in third gear it needs 20 deg of steering angle for going in straight line...

So or something is wrong in my installation or something is wrong in the game.

 

As a person who enjoys driving the real Camaro SS everyday, I will simply say the AMS2 Camaro SS continues to be a significant let down.

 

I also "daily drive" a very powerful, relatively heavy road car that some owners like to take to the track imaging that it is race car. Generally a mistake, unless you own stocks in a tire company. The car is phenomenal on twisty roads or at ridiculously high speeds (wish I lived in Germany so I could experience it at 275 km/h), but honestly it is a joke at the track if you have driven anything ranging from a Miata to a formula trainer or even a low-end race kart. Basically, any car that heavy will suck on a race track when pushed hard. Laws of physics.

That being said, I agree the SS in-game doesn't feel as close to the real thing as we would like, but I have been struggling to try to connect dots as to how and why. My conclusion is a systemic one, because we have already been told the basic car physics are accurate (which I never doubted). It has to be something that also applies to most/all other cars, but perhaps shows-up in a more pronounced manner in this vehicle. Aside from the diff issues (also affecting many vehicles), which are fixed or close to being fixed, I think you might agree that the car is missing a basic nimbleness at low speeds?

This ponderous-feeling lack of responsiveness or nimbleness is almost like the reactions of the car at higher speeds and under extreme loads...those butt-clenching moments when you are not sure for a few seconds whether you have pushed the beast too far/too hard and might slide off the road. A scaled-down version of this happens at low speeds when the car should be much sharper due to the tire grip being nowhere near maximum.

This occurred to me as my explanation for the "gap" between what I see and feel in the game versus real life. It is also the case, to smaller degrees usually, in most other vehicles. The lack of responsiveness at low speeds...the seeming lack of tire bite when you are driving so slowly...or is it the FFB fooling us into thinking there is a lack of grip, but telemetry would say the grip is actually there? I'm not sure exactly what is the source, but I know that I experience it in AMS 2 in a wide variety of vehicles.

F-Retro has just been improved again in the latest beta, but it is another example. Yes, just looking at the wheels and tires on this car tells you it is liable to under steer more often than other formula cars, but....was the real car really that unable to turn in a low-speed corner...even if diff settings were not optimal? Again, to me, the car sliding and front tires refusing to bite even at ridiculously low speeds is a symptom of the same issue with the Camaro. How can the F-Retro glide thorough a high-speed sweeper at 225 km/h, yet can't negotiate a hairpin competently at 25 km/h? As mentioned, it has been sharpened a lot, but the whole experience shouldn't be possible if the tires (and perhaps some other aspects of the physics) were actually gripping as they should at low speeds (which is to say in the case of a F-Retro about the same as a go kart!).

I believe Reiza has been making adjustments over the past 6 months that keeps moving the bar closer to what will ultimately be a completely satisfying experience. Unfortunately, like me, you likely haven't had your car on a challenging race track pushing it to 10/10ths to compare the high-speed performance, but we all have driven our cars and even race cars at 5/10ths

I also remember this evolution in many other past sims. It's a racing sim, so the focus is always first on the physics and realism while racing (the 9/10ths to 10/10ths window) rather than piddling through the pit lane speeds. You can read hundreds of pages of commentary about this in iRacing and rF2 forums if interested. Those sims have/had exactly the same issues.

 

I agree about everything, but every owner of powerful cars has at least once floored it in second gear in straight line with no traction control without (apart from clinic cases...) crashing it.

In AMS I'm risking to lose control in the same situation with Ultima Road and (more surprisingly) Opala Stock and CamaroSS. I'm not the fastest guy ever, but in 25 years of sim driving this is quite new to me...

 

That is a very good observation, and ties in with what I have found as well. My best guess is that this is an issue that only becomes noticeable with high mass vehicles, i.e. the Camaro or the F-Trucks. Granted, it's been a while since I last drove one of the trucks, but from what I remember they didn't just feel heavy, they also felt... off. Very different from what I remember in AMS1 or Formula Truck 2013. Almost as if the tires are unable to generate any proper grip whatsoever, even when driven very slowly and carefully.

So based on this, well, feeling, I would say it is something that happens with the tires for particularly heavy vehicles (or only becomes noticeable in these cases).

 

@Marc Collins: The only part of your reply that I agree with is the cost of the tires...

As someone who grew up driving sideways in an offroad race car, I assure you that the sixth generation Camaro SS is far more capable than you give it credit for. It carves corners well and it drifts well. Describing it as a very powerful, relatively heavy road car... is the way you might have described a lot of muscle cars back in the day but definitely not the way to describe a sixth generation Camaro SS. Over the last several decades, I have driven a LOT of sports cars including Miatas, 911s, 930s, Boxers, Lotuses, Ferraris, and AMGs (which are really more on the muscle side). The sixth generation Camaro SS is incredibly special. Despite its weight, it has been described over and over as a game changer because it acts helluva lot more like a 911 than you can imagine. It is one of those cars you don't just get into. You put it on.

In contrast, the AMS2 version of a Camaro SS drives like an old Chevy Vega with a big block stuffed in it. It accelerates alright, but it neither stops nor corners. So, as I have said many times before, please don't defend AMS2's simulation of this car unless you have REAL experience driving it. Right now, it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.

 

Whell... this is not allowed even more since beta v1.0.2.3.1271 Camaro SS is Clutch LSD only.

 

@CrimsonEminence
Much as I love to drift, it really shouldn't be the fastest way around the track. Regardless, I love the enthusiasm.

 

It is not a matter of Camaro or not Camaro.
The AMS2 Camaro is wrong related to anything with reasonable suspension geometry and that kind of (relatively weak) power to weight ratio.

Period.

 

So it's not a camero ss, but it is superb fun to drive. I would be sorry to see it go. Persue the real car behavior ofcourse but keep this as a fork and call it a Chevy vega.

 

OMG, you just reminded me how much fun I used to have in an Eagle Talon TSI turbo awd. Talk about 4 wheel slides... wow. K, back to Camaros.