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Car handling between sessions

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Kurupt CDN, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    think they said somewhere track state doesnt carry over (yet), probably bugs in livetrack not letting them release the whole thing idk. ... BUT there might be other factors too because even resetting track state shouldnt make it undrivable.
     
  2. Ernie

    Ernie Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Maybe this issue is more pronounced in cars, where the grip level is influencing the front/rear car balance much more. It feels like traction is dropping much more on the rear than on the front, when the track has low grip, which leads to a drastic imbalance.

    Actually it seems like a bit of a gambling, if the practice car setup will work in the race as well.
     
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  3. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    I usually add a click of rear df, or take out a little rear bar for the race in most of my races. Thats more because I need a more stable setup to push hard in a race... but it helps with this too. Still, probably shouldnt be needed.
     
  4. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem, my setups aren't unstable. It's not like I'm on a knife edge and a tiny reduction in traction is all it takes for me to topple. Half the time my setups consist of little more than brake balance changes. That's what makes this latest case even more confusing, since I was actively trying different brake balances during the race itself and couldn't find anything as stable as it was during practice.
     
  5. azaris

    azaris Member

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    I noticed something similar with the Formula Classic Gen 2/3 cars. When in free practice the car is fine, but when starting a single player race the track surface feels much rougher, tyres lock extremely easily, car bounces all over the place and has very low grip. This lasts for several laps.

    Note this is not because tyres are cold as these cars have tyre warmers and in fact the tyres are warmer than in free practice where you drive out of the pits with cold tyres.
     
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  6. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Check brake temps and tire pressure differences between P and R sessions. In R, you get pre-warmed equipment with harder tires and already hot brakes. This would explain the changes you are noticing. Harder tires is obvious. But some of the cars have very sensitive brakes that lock-up more easily when they are warm/hot...maybe a bit too much? They don't have to be that hot for this to occur and I am not sure that is realistic. I would expect premature lock-up only when the brakes are exceptionally hot or overheating.
     
  7. BartZ

    BartZ Member

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  8. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    Things like that would account for mild differences in handling, but not the wholesale change people are reporting in our club racing. It's not just a lap one issue. You can get your tyre and brake temps to the same level in both practice and race by doing a few laps, after which you would expect less grip in practice due to a green track. This is not the case. Regardless of ambient, track, tyre or brake temps, the handling feels noticeably worse throughout the race.

    This is not an issue in any other sim I use, which is why I think this is a genuine issue which requires investigation.

    Pretty sure you've got the wrong thread here bud...
     
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  9. BartZ

    BartZ Member

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    Yip. Sorry about that. Just deleted the post. My mistake
     
  10. F1 Hero

    F1 Hero Active Member

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    This issue is still going on.

    I hope the devs are aware of it and can bring a solution as soon as possible.
     
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  11. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    I just had this happen to me. Curiously the other people in my group didnt seem to notice, but I went from fast and balanced to driving an unstable mess. I spun every other lap, when I'm normally pretty good at keeping it between the lines. It just felt wildly different.
     
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  12. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    There is also the issue of track rubber build-up affecting grip. It's all WIP and not always set or behaving as expected.
     
  13. azaris

    azaris Member

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    This bug still exists, is as bad as ever, and not a beep from Reiza.

    Here's a test. Pick one of the Group A cars, set a clear weather at noon. Pick Nurburgring Short. Go to Test Day and see how fast your lap times are.

    Now start a short 10 min Race against the AI, no qualifying, random grid position. Again clear weather. Compare your lap times during the race to your Test Day times. Sometimes the track will be INCREDIBLY slippery, the car will slide unlike anything you experienced in Test Day. It's like driving on ice. The AI will also struggle, but randomly 1-2 AIs will blaze away like 2-3 seconds faster than the entire field. It's absurd. It's like livetrack resets to a green track but not for every car on the grid, resulting in some cars driving on ice while others getting perfect grip.
     
  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    So, nothing has changed from my post right above yours :(
     
  15. steelreserv

    steelreserv Active Member

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    This needs to be addressed. I remember occasionally being caught off guard by grip levels at certain points, however I chalked it up to user error. (Ginetta). Made adjustments and moved on. Ill keep a better eye on it though as grip levels shouldnt effect a custom race stable setup this way. Ive only been testing GT3s lately, and havent noticed anything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  16. azaris

    azaris Member

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    The effect is worse in cars that don't have any aerodynamic grip, GT3s are probably less affected. Try GT4s as well.
     
  17. steelreserv

    steelreserv Active Member

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    It was actually the Ginetta Gt4 that I noticed having odd handling characteristics between sessions and if I remember a very steep cliff during at 10 lap race. Like I was driving a different car.

    Another thing to look at, specific to MP, is sometimes people set time of day and tire wear to be accelerated.

    Despite the fact that the SETA tire model is "forgiving" and obviously we have all read and experienced the "forgiving" nature of AMS2, I have noticed with SETA (in AMS2 and PC2) that if the tires fall off, they fall OFF. Without any indication of wear or excessive temperature in the tire app.
     
  18. azaris

    azaris Member

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    A similar bug existed already in Project Cars 2, and there was just as much confusion about it there:

    Grip Bug

    http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62772-Grip-issues-bug-Super-Trofeo

    http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62871-Are-races-different-than-Private-Testing

    Best I can tell, it happened a lot to XBox users when they tried to run with more than 14 AI or in multiplayer with more than 14 players, but also to low-end PC users. Apparently the physics engine in PC2 degraded (tyre model switched to some simplified version?) if the CPU was overloaded and this might have caused the grip issues. Now who knows if this is the same bug that people get in AMS2 or not.
     
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  19. azaris

    azaris Member

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    I did a bunch of tests with the Formula Classic Gen 3, where I get this bug really badly. Basically, when it hits the car is almost undriveable, bounces like crazy on every braking zone (like wheel tearing up the simrig -bad). Tried various things - loading the setup, changing graphics options, disabling time and weather progression, using weather settings fixed to 15 C / 20 C clear.

    The only factor deciding whether the bug happens was... number of AI cars. Anything below 12 AI cars or less, it doesn't happen, car is fine on braking. As I go above 13 AI it gets progressively worse, and around 16 it is unbearable already. This definitely seems to match with what people reported on PC2 with lower-end machines struggling to run large AI grids and the physics being the first thing to go to trash. Note my frame rate is more or less always the same, steady 60-80 fps.

    Maybe other people could see if they notice similar behaviour?
     
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  20. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Is there some way to tell precisely when this transition occurs? Most games deprecate graphics when FPS gets too low, so it is easy to visibly see what and when something is happening. Is it lack of VRAM or RAM or FPS or some combination that triggered this in PC 2? It will be difficult to test on many systems if we do not know how to force it to happen or cannot gauge exactly when it is happening.
     
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