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Cars are way too loose!

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Darrel Klassen, Dec 12, 2020.

  1. Darrel Klassen

    Darrel Klassen New Member

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    Reiza,

    The default setup on these cars, "especially" the GT3 cars are way too loose. One wrong blink and you swap ends. It's like driving on ice most of the time. Very frustrating. The default setup needs to be way better. I guess some may disagree and I'm no setup expert but I shouldn't need to be to keep the car on the track. If you want a loose car then set it up that way but for a lot of us the default setup is just no fun to drive at all. For the time being I'm going back to rFactor 2 until this is corrected. I really want to love AMS2, the UI, graphics, sound, etc. is all top notch but the frustration level with default setups is just too much. I'll add that the cars in most cases are way to bouncy as well.
     
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  2. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    I actually tend to agree (but yes many people will defend the current state and pretend its perfect) and for me it was back to rf2 some time ago as well, the game has its problems but as long as you have a league or a community its awesome. I do check ams2 updates from time to time.

    My assumption is getting grasps of madness engine and tuning it to feel as realistic as possible will take a long time. AMS1 had great physics and it is probably hard to just "convert".UI and Sounds also need some work, as well as Multiplayer but we know thats in the pipeline.
     
  3. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    Its your own decision if you like rF2 better.
    But to prove/reveal if the default setups in AMS2 is completely useless you can grab a few of the better LB/TT setups and compare them to the default setups.
    Because you will find that compared to default setups then the LB top setups are not very different.
    So at least a lot of drivers are able to drive very controlled and fast;) with either 100% default setups or something very near.
    OK?
     
  4. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Active Member

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    In some ways they aren't loose. The differential has to be tweaked to get trail braking to work on the GT3s.

    But most RWD cars want to swap ends too easily out of hairpins.
     
  5. ControlLogix

    ControlLogix Active Member

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    Coming from PC2, where it felt like the GT3's were always driving on ice, I find the GT3's in AMS2 to have way more grip, a much better sense of what the tires are doing, and just a more realistic feeling overall. So basically the exact opposite of the OP's experience.
     
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  6. Darrel Klassen

    Darrel Klassen New Member

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    For me AMS2 has been this way since day 1. One person suggested I delete the AMS2 folder in documents so I did. Had to re-setup everything but I have to say it's much much better. Bug perhaps?
     
  7. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    Until today, I would actually kind of agree, specifically when it comes to the GT3 cars. My main issue with them was that the soft tyres would overheat very quickly, within 2-3 laps, after which you would slide around and lose 2 seconds per lap or eventually spin. Mediums were 2 seconds slower per lap out of the box and just as slidey. Made racing them not much fun.

    But today's hotfix seems to have changed something on the GT3 tyre model and the softs no longer instantly overheat. The AMG seems way grippier, I can do consistent laps from start to finish and there is no weird sliding. If you have too much wheel spin, bump up (down) the TC. These cars are meant to be driven leaning into the TC.

    Try it out!
     
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  8. ControlLogix

    ControlLogix Active Member

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    It's weird that you guys are having this experience. Mine has been exactly the opposite for a long time now, not just since this update. The GT3 soft slick tires feel great to me, not loose at all, and they don't overheat and change characteristics as drastically as you are reporting.

    Maybe there is some bug in your setups/game files as seen by the OP's post just above.
     
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  9. David Peres

    David Peres Active Member

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    Saying that the GT3 cars are too loose is a maybe a very simplified way to describe what's going on, because they can be both planted and "on rails" to the point of not being fun (like the Porsche GT3) but the next second your car might be doing a 360ยบ slide with no warning. It's almost an on/off thing sometimes, with little in between and not much "progression" feeling in the tires.

    The problem maybe is that the GT3 tires might not be loose enough to the point where they offer so much resistance to loosing traction that when it does happen it just has to be very violent and sudden in order to brake all that resistance, and then you just get into an unsavable spin.

    On the other hand I'm talking out of my a** because I'm not a physics developer and I have no idea how to understand these cars :D Their behaviour can be so contraditory sometimes, one day I think I understand them and the next day I don't anymore and I'm finding the experience so frustrating that I've been playing less and less AMS2 now... oh well... I just hope Reiza can fix wathever the problem is.
     
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  10. TekNeil

    TekNeil Take me back to the 2.4l, twin 50 weber days...

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    This sums up my feelings. I don't find anything too 'loose' at speed, but a real issue I find in any sim (Especially madness engine it seems) are the slow speed physics. It feels like the tyres turn from rubber to plastic at times. There's no bogging down/grip/scrabbling for grip under particular throttle conditions, just crazy torque spinning plastic tyres...
     
  11. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    I guess you describe the same as I tried to describe in another thread.
    The difference is just that at least conserning the formula cars I prefer (F-Reiza/F-V10-G1) I consider AMS2 way of loosing and REGAINING grip at mid & high speed corners as the most "realistic"/convincing on the market - while the grip destribution/change in low speed corners is just as bad and unrealistic :rolleyes: as all other socalled racing sims on the market.
    The urgent area where AMS2 stands out.

    ByTheWay: My own personal explanation of this low/high speed issue is that all the known racing games use the same tire model for low and high speed. They just lower or raise the same grip parameter. The result is that the cars never completely stop sliding - even at speeds about 70-90km/H. :rolleyes: Only good old Netkar Pro tried to atack this by operating with 2 different TMs - one for high speed and another for low.;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  12. TekNeil

    TekNeil Take me back to the 2.4l, twin 50 weber days...

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  13. steelreserv

    steelreserv Steelcast27 Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Your differentials are not set properly.
     
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  14. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what kind of settings bug is causing soft tyres to have 10-15 higher temperature with the same driving style so that as soon as they hit 105 C or so you go for a slow-speed spin.

    Anyway, from my perspective the GT3s are fixed now. Please don't change the tyre models further, Reiza ;).
     
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  15. steelreserv

    steelreserv Steelcast27 Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Do you think the track and track temp have anything to do with the soft tires overheating? 105c is a grip breakpoint.
     
  16. AndreiC

    AndreiC Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Hi steelreserv, could explain how this dif setup could be improved?
     
  17. lurkusmaximus

    lurkusmaximus New Member

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    I know I have read several write ups about how to setup differentials, but I just don't get it. It's not intuitive for me at all. My ability to properly characterize what the car is doing and then relate that to what needs to change is sorely lacking. Perhaps steelreserv's insight can finally get me over the hump. But even if it doesn't, I know the problem is with me, not his advice.
     
  18. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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  19. steelreserv

    steelreserv Steelcast27 Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    I'll try! GT3's have a limited slip, meaning the power ramp and coast ramp can be adjusted to be locked like a super v8's "spool" differential (25 in the setup screen) or open like most road vehicles (89 in the setup screen) or somewhere in between. The goal is to balance a limited slip diff so that it is not too open or not to locked.

    The differential was designed to allow and provide power/torque to the drive wheels even when they are rotating at different speeds (like when cornering where the inside tire naturally rotates at a slower speed). The problem is, when the diff is too locked both drive wheels lose grip, or too open one of the drive wheels will start to slip, leaving the outside tire to handle all drive and lateral grip, if that starts to slip, you spin.

    How to balance your differential? Determine the corner that is causing the problems and break it down into 3 areas. Entry, Mid-Corner, Exit.

    Entry: Typically with corner entry (braking/trail braking), the brake bias is usually the reason why you spin, the COAST RAMP can help. Locking the coast ramp will help stabilize the car. If its too open, and the brake bias is too far rearward, the car will want to spin when you start trail braking. Move the brake bias rearward and LOWER the coast ramp until you don't have trouble spinning while entering a corner.

    Mid-Corner: This is where you are coasting and feathering the throttle. If you are losing rear grip when off-throttle, this means the COAST RAMP is too open. Lower the coast ramp. Depending on the tightness of the corner, you want some slip (you will hear it) so the car rotates, but not too much. If you are off-throttle the car is rotating nicely, but you start to slip when you are doing light throttle or starting to accel out of the corner, this is the PRELOAD providing too much power and taking the rears over the edge. Lower the preload.

    Corner Exit: This is where Coast Ramp and preload and POWER RAMP "blend". If you've set the coast ramp so the car is rotating but not slipping too much, and you lightly apply power and the car is not spinning, but you start to spin when you start increasing throttle, the POWER RAMP is too open. Lower the power ramp. If you lower it too much, the diff will LOCK which will feel like understeer and could cause a snap spin as well..

    Overall, you are trying to manage the slip of the rears here. Too much locking and the car will generally feel understeery. Too little, oversteery and the car will start rotating and you may not be able to recover. You want them all to be balanced just right so the car properly rotates, but not too much.

    *An extra note about preload. When you first hit the throttle during a corner and the throttle seems to help the car turn, thats fine, its the preload doing its job, but it could be working rear tires perhaps more than necessary and making up for an imbalance in other areas (suspension). You want the preload set so that you barely feel a difference when you start applying throttle.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
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